What are you listening to now?

[PDG]

I listened to his Fantasia in D minor, K.397 recently and I can see where young Beethoven picked up a trick or two. If Mozart hadn't died so young, I wonder how his piano music would have developed - and indeed Beethoven's.

Watched Brendel playing the Mozart C minor, K.457 on BBC 2 the other night. This clearly influenced the Pathetique, Op.13 (which sort of brings us back to hemidemisemiquavers, in a hemidemisemi sort-of way...).

[Hofrat]

In the D-minor sonata, Beethoven uses "throw-away" introductions in the first movement. And in "Eroica" the 2-note introduction is never repeated again. Schubert uses a more lyrical disposable introduction in his 5th symphony and elsewhere. So, it was becoming an acceptable practice at that time. The question is, what do we call these introductions? Barry Cooper calls them "curtains."

[Michael]

But there's no second violin in a Trio! So a Trio has no 'Inner Voice'? And what does that have to do with the price of fish, anyway?...

(Here I am trying to confuse Michael because he has admitted to being tipsy...). He...he...he...

Just because I am tipsy doesn't mean that I am incapable of making a coherent reply......
Actually, I can't make a coherent reply. Let's just agree that the string trios are bloody marvellous. Let's just agree that the trios are civilised musical coversation between three people, and the quartets the same between four! (Although, the word "civilised" is too tame to apply to Ludwig van B.)
What does it matter in the long run? PDG - just dig out your trios and listen, like Zevy, and enjoy. I know what Zevy is going through - I felt the same when I heard the string trios for the first time. Let's hope there is no cure for that condition.

[Michael]

In the D-minor sonata, Beethoven uses "throw-away" introductions in the first movement. And in "Eroica" the 2-note introduction is never repeated again. Schubert uses a more lyrical disposable introduction in his 5th symphony and elsewhere. So, it was becoming an acceptable practice at that time. The question is, what do we call these introductions? Barry Cooper calls them "curtains."

Yes, it doesn't come back in the repeat of the expositions. I think Daniel Brenboim called them "calling cards". I don't know why, but I have a feeling that Peter 2 (PDG) is going to correct me on this.
Incidentally, I adore Schubert's 5th. I much prefer it to the "Unfinished" or the 9th.

[PDG]

PDG - just dig out your trios and listen, like Zevy, and enjoy.

I do, I did, and I will always. They are brilliant, underrated gems (a bit like myself in that respect...).

[Michael]

I do, I did, and I will always. They are brilliant, underrated gems (a bit like myself in that respect...).

Seriously, PGG, they are bloody marvellous - even his first work in that genre - Opus 3 - but most especially the C minor of Opus 9!

[PDG]

Seriously, PGG, they are bloody marvellous - even his first work in that genre - Opus 3 - but most especially the C minor of Opus 9!

Friggin' Marvellous. Of course. I AM AGREEING WITH YOU!!

Who is PGG?

[Michael]

Friggin' Marvellous. Of course. I AM AGREEING WITH YOU!!

Who is PGG?

Good God! I didn't realise we were live. Sorry about that, PGD!
Peter, couldn't you have picked a more drunk-friendly pseudonym?

[PDG]

Good God! I didn't realise we were live. Sorry about that, PGD!
Peter, couldn't you have picked a more drunk-friendly pseudonym?

You're drunk but can still spell 'pseudonym'??

I'm impressed (and more than mildly inebriated myself...).

[Michael]

Quote: If it's of any solace, friend, I'm a bit p*ss*d too!...


I knew it! All your messages are blurred!

[PDG]

Quote: If it's of any solace, friend, I'm a bit p*ss*d too!...


I knew it! All your messages are blurred!

This forum is very lucky to have you, Michael - drunk or sober.

Good night.

[Michael]

This forum is very lucky to have you, Michael - drunk or sober.

Good night.

Ditto. Good night.

[Chris]

I listened to his Fantasia in D minor, K.397 recently and I can see where young Beethoven picked up a trick or two. If Mozart hadn't died so young, I wonder how his piano music would have developed - and indeed Beethoven's.

I do like the Fantasia in D minor. I played it at a recital once, along with a Fantasia of my own composition it inspired me to create.

[Chris]

Not even the Concertos?

I like the concertos better than the solo piano works. I love No. 23 especially. But even then, not every movement is strong. Frequently Mozart delivers one or two good movements with a weak link in there somewhere. His slow movements especially can bring his pieces down for me.

[Peter]

There is perhaps another way of looking at the opening Grave of this sonata : could it be that Beethoven is referring back to a earlier Baroque form of the “sonata”, where the first movement often bore this title (and with dotted rhythm), as well as in the French Ouverture style ? If we were to accept this angle, the Grave in op. 13 indeed does function as a sort of ‘ouverture’, and hence not to be repeated.

Yes I think there is a harking back to the Baroque and the French overture. Beethoven had experimented with a similar structure (though not the Baroque rhythm) in his early sonata WoO47/2 and again later with Op.31/2 and the Kreutzer sonata. The rest of the movement clearly shows the influence of Dussek's Op.35/3.