Gergiev under pressure to dissociate himself from Putin

[Schenkerian]

We will have to agree to disagree on Gergiev, though we do actually agree that the situation is insane!

This gives me hope:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/0...ip-looks-like/

[Quijote]

Well I don't know why you criticised the organisations calling for Gergiev to condemn the invasion in the first place, what were they supposed to do? Do nothing and accept your view that the man has no choice and allow him to continue? By doing this they themselves were making a public statement that they would not put artistic values above moral considerations and this is to be welcomed. They knew that Gergiev would not comply and forced his hand. I agree it is sobering to realise that great artists can hold the most repugnant views (there are many historical examples) and that is why they need to be called out as Gergiev has been.

More on people doing something: More than 4,300 people arrested at anti-war protests across Russia

See here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...in-war-ukraine

[euphony131]

This is pure cancel culture. Art and Politics should not even be spoken in the same breath. I quote Mr. Vroon of the American Record Guide from a recent editorial:

"...the arts have nothing to do with politics and should not be made to serve social or political goals. The value of the arts -- such as classical music -- depends party on the fact that they stand apart from such matters -- and, really, from daily life. Art serves something deeper and greater than political goals, which change with the fashions. Nor does it serve the fashions! Or the people in the sense of the popular. Popularity destroys art."

In my city they are starting to change street signs that have "Russia" in it. What's next? Renaming the neighborhood of Russian Hill to Ukrainian Hill? https://www.sfgate.com/local/article...t-16987026.php
Shall I also be penalized for reading Tolstoy and listening to Tchaikovsky?

And if one truly wants to get political then why not remove anyone and anything with ties to America as well? Have we forgotten about US airstrikes and US military hardware that have killed civilians and destroyed homes in Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine?

Judge yourselves as you judge others. There is more "gray" in this situation then people realize.

Now excuse me as I go and listen to some incredible Russian music conducted by Russians... I also plan to eat some Chinese food later with some Hummus on the side. And possibly dip into Lao Tzu and use Arabic numerals, like 1,2,3, etc. And, no, I won't worry about Covid or suicide bombers while I do those activities.

[euphony131]

This gives me hope:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/0...ip-looks-like/

Schenkerian, while I agree with you in general regarding "cancel culture" I must point out that Zelensky is no angel and himself has been cited for corruption and stowing away ill-gotten gains in offshore accounts. In fact, right up until the invasion, Ukraine had one of the worst scores for corruption, ahead of even Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine

We in the West are being fed our own brand of propaganda with this notion that The West/Ukraine are Angels and all of Russia is PURE EVIL. Simply not true. Our own US hands have blood on them, quite a lot.

Zelensky, a former comedian/TV show actor, has essentially gotten his ideal role, the part of a lifetime and he's playing it up for all it's worth. It's as if Andy Kaufman (an American comedian with a cult-like following from the 80's) were voted into office and suddenly got the chance to mug it up for the cameras as the Savior of the Universe.

So I would be cautious about painting Zelensky as Mr. Infallible. Quite honestly, I find a lot of his "heroic antics" rather cringy and contrived.

Now all that aside...I'm ready to listen to some great music. How about you?

[Schenkerian]

Schenkerian, while I agree with you in general regarding "cancel culture" I must point out that Zelensky is no angel and himself has been cited for corruption and stowing away ill-gotten gains in offshore accounts. In fact, right up until the invasion, Ukraine had one of the worst scores for corruption, ahead of even Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine

We in the West are being fed our own brand of propaganda with this notion that The West/Ukraine are Angels and all of Russia is PURE EVIL. Simply not true. Our own US hands have blood on them, quite a lot.

Zelensky, a former comedian/TV show actor, has essentially gotten his ideal role, the part of a lifetime and he's playing it up for all it's worth. It's as if Andy Kaufman (an American comedian with a cult-like following from the 80's) were voted into office and suddenly got the chance to mug it up for the cameras as the Savior of the Universe.

So I would be cautious about painting Zelensky as Mr. Infallible. Quite honestly, I find a lot of his "heroic antics" rather cringy and contrived.

Now all that aside...I'm ready to listen to some great music. How about you?

I find these comments very disappointing, to be honest. Zelensky has put his own life on the line and his is the face of leadership; most everybody in my country (Australia) is of that opinion. Even a notoriously activist left wing news site thinks so:

https://theconversation.com/volodymy...machine-178660

I didn't say Zelensky was an angel (Ukraine needs real human beings, not angels) but Russia has form as a vicious tyrant's easy haven of choice and cannot be trusted to tell any truths whatsoever. (Yet, still there are marxists in the western world who think this system of economics and politics is desirable; gulls all of them.)

Please don't assume perfection is or ever was a trait in any nation's history and I'm sorry that you obviously feel such antipathy towards your own nation. My heart breaks for those people of the Ukraine; not just foul weather, past corrupt governments but constant bombardment from Russia - a soon-to-be isolated hermit kingdom with a GDP only a bit larger than Australia and a rag-tag undisciplined military. Putin has warned, "if you get involved...bla bla bla (yeah, sorry for the plagiarism)". Well, Europe IS involved; two million refugees are flooding in to neighbouring countries.

Meanwhile, Joe Biden has told Americans that "Putin has just invaded Russia"!! With leadership like that what in the world could possibly go wrong???

[Peter]

I would simply add that as always it is the people who suffer, especially the Ukranians but also the Russians now and ultimately the whole world - this is where dictatorship gets you.

[euphony131]

My heart breaks for those people of the Ukraine; not just foul weather, past corrupt governments but constant bombardment from Russia - a soon-to-be isolated hermit kingdom with a GDP only a bit larger than Australia and a rag-tag undisciplined military. Putin has warned, "if you get involved...bla bla bla (yeah, sorry for the plagiarism)". Well, Europe IS involved; two million refugees are flooding in to neighbouring countries.

Does your heart break when Palestinian women and children get shelled and shot to death? What about the estimated 80,000 to 300,000 Chechens (mostly civilians, including children) killed by Russians? Ah, but then the news is selective because some events don't fit the narrative the West wants or they're simply not important geopoliticially, i.e, it's okay if Muslims in some backwater called Chechnya die. The hypocrisy is something that must be faced.

The fact is the U.S. did have a hand in making Putin paranoid. We tried to influence Ukraine (among many other breakaway Eastern Bloc nations). We kept enlarging NATO. If the cold war truly ended why didn't the West dismantle NATO as a gesture of peace? Why keep moving in more missiles? And why -- when the USSR fell -- did the U.S. allow Russia to descend into mob wars and rule by oligarchs? Why didn't we help them transition? We won and then we watched gleefully as our former enemy tore itself to bits. We create so many of our own messes. Iran. Afghanistan. Iraq. Cuba. On and on.

The world is not black and white I'm sorry to say.

And again regarding Humanitarian Crises: there are currently dozens of ethinic groups facing annihilation. Does your heart break for the Rohingya people? What about for Tibetans? Do you care at all for religious minorities in Somalia? No? Only Ukranian Lives Matter?

PS: Today, I listened to Carl Schuricht conduct the 9th symphony and it was incredible and just what my soul needed.

[Peter]

A step too far - https://slippedisc.com/2022/03/break...s-tchaikovsky/

[Schenkerian]

A step too far - https://slippedisc.com/2022/03/break...s-tchaikovsky/

Of course, but the west is BIG on symbolism and that's why Putin is getting away with being a war criminal. There's a newer kind of war coming; globalization, as I mentioned earlier. Economic crippling of Russia will cause its own people to rise up, just as they did in 1917. Of course, the army has all the guns but that didn't stop the people, just as it didn't in France in 1791.

[Schenkerian]

Does your heart break when Palestinian women and children get shelled and shot to death? What about the estimated 80,000 to 300,000 Chechens (mostly civilians, including children) killed by Russians? Ah, but then the news is selective because some events don't fit the narrative the West wants or they're simply not important geopoliticially, i.e, it's okay if Muslims in some backwater called Chechnya die. The hypocrisy is something that must be faced.

The fact is the U.S. did have a hand in making Putin paranoid. We tried to influence Ukraine (among many other breakaway Eastern Bloc nations). We kept enlarging NATO. If the cold war truly ended why didn't the West dismantle NATO as a gesture of peace? Why keep moving in more missiles? And why -- when the USSR fell -- did the U.S. allow Russia to descend into mob wars and rule by oligarchs? Why didn't we help them transition? We won and then we watched gleefully as our former enemy tore itself to bits. We create so many of our own messes. Iran. Afghanistan. Iraq. Cuba. On and on.

The world is not black and white I'm sorry to say.

And again regarding Humanitarian Crises: there are currently dozens of ethinic groups facing annihilation. Does your heart break for the Rohingya people? What about for Tibetans? Do you care at all for religious minorities in Somalia? No? Only Ukranian Lives Matter?

PS: Today, I listened to Carl Schuricht conduct the 9th symphony and it was incredible and just what my soul needed.

Your comments are COMPLETELY black and white since I didn't suggest that sympathy shouldn't be shown to any of those groups you mention - most under the yoke of tyrants - and you take no account of the criminal regime in Palestine which gratuitously hurls rockets at Israel - just like that tyrant in North Korea when he threatens the US by showing that his is bigger than yours!!. I wonder how you'd fare if you were surrounded by people who publicly declared they wanted you dead. Would you feel slightly threatened at all? And it all demonstrates that aggrieved haters who have rockets and bombs and who are paranoid are the biggest threat to planet Earth.

The Russians killing Chechnyans; yes, they showed their real 'peaceful' intentions there. Lots of good reasons to dismantle NATO. NOT. The Russians were also in Afghanistan. And the US in Iran? Didn't understand that the US was on a war footing after 9/11? Most of the rest of us did.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Left is still banging on about climate change as the biggest existential threat. 3 weeks of flooding in Australia has seen 11 die, many because they drove through roiling rivers. How many have died in Ukraine in those 3 weeks? Climate change is an inconvenience (and that is, ironically, an inconvenient truth) but war kills quickly and in large numbers, particularly if a crazy tyrant wants to bomb nuclear power plants. Not to mention pandemics and natural disasters. (I doubt the survivors of the Indonesian tsunami of 2004 (which killed circa 250,000 people) would worry too much about 'climate change'!)

At least Ukraine has taken the west's focus off equity, diversity, inclusion and the endless worry about 'trans' and feminist issues. You just couldn't make it up. But that's what happens after nearly 80 years of ZERO EXISTENTIAL THREAT from wars; you get to focus on the folderol. Not for long, I'm afraid.

I came back and edited this because I found this comment below-the-line this morning in our national newspaper and I think it contains many truths:

The European Union and its Brussel’s swill trough , where the elites ponder their next woke policy to save the Union but are incapable of saving the people of Ukraine. NATO which promises freedom , but only to those who are part of the Club - maybe . Germany an economic powerhouse who turns a blind eye to the atrocities inflicted on its neighbours in order to get gas from the perpetrator of these evil deeds . France who was saved by countries from around the world , and who lost many of their sons as a result , is more interested in retaliation on London for leaving the EU than stopping a madman killing women and children in a hospital nearby . Zelensky you offer hope for what could be.

[Schenkerian]

I don't know if I agree with this, but it's another viewpoint anyway:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/0...not-the-enemy/

[euphony131]

I don't know if I agree with this, but it's another viewpoint anyway:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/0...not-the-enemy/

Well, it's absolute cancel culture and I agree with it completely. I'm surprised you do not considering your adversion to to the trumpeting Social Justice movement gone insane. It's essentially the same thing. Get fired for not using a nonbinary pronoun. Get fired for not denoucing Putin. Why aren't any American conductors under the gun for supporting Trump? Why aren't they asked: Did you vote for Trump? Do you support the Insurrection? Because it's asinine! Again, like the Mr. Vroon in the editorial says: Arts and Politics do not belong together! I do not care what Mr. Gergiev's politics are. Just like I don't care what his sexuality is. Or whether he flosses before he brushes. It is irrelevant to ART.

I only want to give you some perspective. For example: Did you know Putin in the early years of his Presidency actually asked to join NATO? The US turned him down. He also asked to join the EU. Europe turned him down. The US exerted its presence on former Eastern Bloc nations, adding to the humiliation. NATO bombed Serbia for 78-days, killing 1,500 Serb civilians. Then carved out a nation called Kosovo from the wreckagle. Serbians share strong ties with Russians; it was like substitute killing of Russians. https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/08...ing-of-serbia/

Yes, there are Serbian war criminals as there are Palestinian rocket lauchers (as you pointed out). However, I am talking about noncombatants. Families. Grandmothers. How are they war criminals? Did they launch any rockets? No. Innocents were killed. And the West was responsible.

We got blood on our hands just like everyone else. That's the point.
Judge yourselves as you judge others.

I think it would help to hear a more balanced analysis on Russia. I reallly recommend Vladimr Pozner. You seem like an intelligent person, so at the very least you'll find it fascinating and quite possibly MIND-OPENING:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ
I also recommend this on Israel and just how much aid the US gives to them and without conditions, despite the killing of innocent Palestinians:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTksWA1I2UI
"Past crimes against the Jewish people do not justify a blank check now."

BTW, you mention North Korea. That's interesting because what is happening to Russia now with the severe, severe sanctions is that we are turning them into a Second North Korea. They will be so cut off that they will be forced to go completely inward and everyone else will be the "Enemy." I don't think starving the average Russian, like starving the average North Korean, is going to help matters. Just makes the West look cold-blooded.

[Schenkerian]

Fairly incoherent comments here. The Russians had Perestroika and the chance to express goodwill toward the Western world. This was fumbled with the alcoholic President, Yeltsin, who was installed early on: he fired on his own people. Renegades cannot be trusted. Hundreds of years of authoritarianism has meant that this form of government is in the Russian DNA.

Tyrants will be tyrants, and blaming the west for this is just silly. Plenty of people have disagreed with the west but they haven't slaughtered their neighbours and comrades to prove a point. I'm sure you would have liked Neville "Peace in our Time" Chamberlain.

The Hamas criminal organization doesn't care about its own people, just as Putin doesn't care about his. Past crimes against Israel? The little dividend of that is being ring-fenced by nations who've sworn annihilation of that State. My son visited Israel 3 years ago on a politically sponsored program and he was astounded by their nation and its resilience. Much of the reason it is hated by Palestine is that it's built on USA models of economics and, of course, "if I can't have it neither can you". The tired old trope of the modern Left.

Stop trying to make excuses for tyrannical barbarians. History will deal with them, and probably their own people will - at the end of the day. They choose to make themselves pariahs; the west would prefer otherwise.

You have to FIGHT for freedom; it isn't endowed from the heavens, nor does it occur naturally. Voltaire knew it and my 12 year old grandson does also.

Scoop: bullies respond to other bullies; ergo, Putin never acted when Trump was in the White House as Trump as an unpredictable character. You never knew what he was likely to do. A western world completely absorbed in diversity and other woke issues is gazing at its own navel. An ideal opportunity for a vicious tyrant to "Carpe Diem", knowing you're just too weak to respond.

The rest is folderol. Or, should I say, the West is folderol.

[Quijote]

A step too far - https://slippedisc.com/2022/03/break...s-tchaikovsky/

Yes, that is rather silly. I can kind of see how the 1812 might touch a few raw nerves but certainly not the symphony they had programmed.
I wonder what the Cardiff Phil would have done if they had scheduled a particular symphony by Shostakovitch...

[Sorrano]

Yes, that is rather silly. I can kind of see how the 1812 might touch a few raw nerves but certainly not the symphony they had programmed.
I wonder what the Cardiff Phil would have done if they had scheduled a particular symphony by Shostakovitch...

I suppose I should be ostracized for listening to Tchaikovsk's 6th Symphony a week ago.