What Are You Listening To Now?

[Quijote]

The Mozart violin concertos with one of my favorite violinists, Arthur Grumiaux and Sir Colin Davis and the London Symphony Orchestra.

Thank you, Chris, for your contribution. May I allow myself a critical comment : why would Grumiaux be one of your favourite violinists? Such postings would be more (perhaps pedagogically) interesting if we could know what such criteria are based on.

Here is what I have been listening to :

Beethoven, Piano Concerto N° 3 (a Veritas CD) with Melvyn Tan (on a fortepiano by Derek Adam [1983] after Nanette Streicher, 1814) and the London Classical Players conducted by Roger Norrington. A HIP performance, naturally. But some comments need making : Tan's playing is meticulous, but the piano is swamped by the orchestra, and I feel that the orchestral forces could have been scaled down. The tempos are good (based on Czerny's metronome markings) and come off quite well. Whilst I'm a big fan of HIP (historically informed performance) practice, somehow this performance disappoints me.

Another concerto (from the same CD) that is particulaly intersting is the 4th. Here, the interpretation is much more convincing, and ties in well with Owen Jander's thesis that the slow movement is perhaps the "most programmatic music" that Beethoven ever wrote.

Now, why do you think Janders makes such a claim? And has it anything to do with the piano Beethoven employed at the time of composition?

I appreciate forum members mentioning what they have been listening to, but I see it as pointless to mention the fact without accompanying critical comment (apart from Sorrano and Hoffrat and others who take the time to explain and give context). Fair comment?

[Sorrano]

Berlioz
Messe solennelle.

Written when he was 20 years young, Berlioz was thought to destroy it along with other youthful attempts at composing. But lo and behold, the MS was found in Antwerp in the 1990's. Scattered throughout the piece are various themes that Berlioz would use in later works.

This is wonderful music, indeed! It can be a bit disappointing, however, after having listened much to the Requiem and Te Deum, but it certainly shows which way Berlioz was looking, musically. I, too, have this on a CD and have enjoyed a greatly.

[Chris]

Thank you, Chris, for your contribution. May I allow myself a critical comment : why would Grumiaux be one of your favourite violinists? Such postings would be more (perhaps pedagogically) interesting if we could know what such criteria are based on.

I find that his playing suits the Classical style very well. He uses a modern instrument and modern technique, but his interpretations and style are appropriate to the Classical period. Case in point, his recordings of the Mozart violin concertos. They are by far the best recordings of the Mozart concertos I have heard. They are not too cute, but there is no false drama inserted anywhere either. He gets it right.

His chamber music is equally good. His recordings with the Grumiaux Trio are also first class, particularly the Beethoven string trios, the Mozart string trios and duos, and the Mozart string quintets. I consider them all the top recordings of those pieces.

Grumiaux may not have the warmth of the David Oistrakh (another of my favorites) or the virtuosity of Heifetz, but he always gets the job done right without taking away anything that should be there or adding anything that shouldn't.

[Hofrat]

Sorrano;

Berlioz' "Messe Solennelle," as you know from the CD notes, is the earliest know work of the composer in manuscript that he did not destroy. What I like about pre-opus 1 works of various composers is that it gives us a chance to see the roots of the composer in the perspective of their latest and most famous works. You were disappointed with the Messe when you compared it to his Te Deum and Requiem. I was in awe with the same comparison, that Berlioz was not far from his Requiem form as early as his Messe form.

And what is more, these pre-opus 1 works usually have a wealth of themes that will be used elsewhere. It is fun to pick those out. "Messe solennelle" is a great example.

[Sorrano]

Sorrano;

Berlioz' "Messe Solennelle," as you know from the CD notes, is the earliest know work of the composer in manuscript that he did not destroy. What I like about pre-opus 1 works of various composers is that it gives us a chance to see the roots of the composer in the perspective of their latest and most famous works. You were disappointed with the Messe when you compared it to his Te Deum and Requiem. I was in awe with the same comparison, that Berlioz was not far from his Requiem form as early as his Messe form.

And what is more, these pre-opus 1 works usually have a wealth of themes that will be used elsewhere. It is fun to pick those out. "Messe solennelle" is a great example.

I do agree with you, Hofrat. The "disappointment" that I initially felt was that this was not quite on the same scale as the two massive works, but in reality it was quite the revelation in seeing some of the (more) original ideas that would later become parts of other major works.

[Joy]

Today via radio Overture to Beethoven's "Coriolan", Op. 62. The Swedish Chamber Orchestra with conductor Thomas Dausgaard at Severance Hall, Cleveland. And, no, I'm not going to add any comment Philip.

[Quijote]

Today via radio Overture to Beethoven's "Coriolan", Op. 62. The Swedish Chamber Orchestra with conductor Thomas Dausgaard at Severance Hall, Cleveland. And, no, I'm not going to add any comment Philip.

Our loss, then.

[Peter]

I appreciate forum members mentioning what they have been listening to, but I see it as pointless to mention the fact without accompanying critical comment (apart from Sorrano and Hoffrat and others who take the time to explain and give context). Fair comment?

I have been listening to Debussy's Claire de Lune - the pianist is still struggling with learning the notes and clearly the fingering is not well prepared. I find the legato line inconsistent and the overall balance of the chords far from satisfactory. As for control of dynamics - we'd better not go there especially as he demands very extreme shades of pianissimo. I'll listen again to the same pianist in a weeks time and hopefully there'll have been an improvement!

[Quijote]

I have been listening to Debussy's Claire de Lune - the pianist is still struggling with learning the notes and clearly the fingering is not well prepared. I find the legato line inconsistent and the overall balance of the chords far from satisfactory. As for control of dynamics - we'd better not go there especially as he demands very extreme shades of pianissimo. I'll listen again to the same pianist in a weeks time and hopefully there'll have been an improvement!

Are you talking about yourself? (Add icon thingie that makes clear this is meant as a joke).

[Peter]

Are you talking about yourself? (Add icon thingie that makes clear this is meant as a joke).

I could seriously have been talking about myself, but no it was a pupil - I'd be much harsher about myself!

[Quijote]

I could seriously have been talking about myself, but no it was a pupil - I'd be much harsher about myself!

You do not remark on your poor student's use of the pedal.

[Quijote]

I find that his playing suits the Classical style very well. He uses a modern instrument and modern technique, but his interpretations and style are appropriate to the Classical period. Case in point, his recordings of the Mozart violin concertos. They are by far the best recordings of the Mozart concertos I have heard. They are not too cute, but there is no false drama inserted anywhere either. He gets it right.

I think it is time to call Chris's bluff. You find that his playing suits the Classical style very well. Very well, we accept your subjective comment. What would the "modern technique" be (compared to any earlier technique)? Would that be a question of bow (Tourte or otherwise), fingering (is there any definitive treatise on such a subject?), or informed historical approach (what approach?). You employ the adjective "cute" and the compound clause "false drama". What on earth do these terms mean? Or are you simply repeating what you have read in the CD sleeve notes? Finally, I fail to see what "getting it right" means : are you referring to Goodman's "total compliance to the score" (an idealist position, if ever there was one)?

[Quijote]

I forgot to clarify the Goodman reference above : N Goodman, Language of Art : An Approach to a Theory of Symbols (Oxford, 1969).

[Quijote]

And "symbols" are what (musical) notation is all about, right? A corollary : we speak about "works", but talking about music, how can we say such "works" exist? In performance, naturally, but in score form? What are the ontological conditions that allow for a temporal art form to be referred to as a "work"? A question (a trick one) for Chris : did Bach write "works"? Careful, now ...

[Quijote]

With regard to general postings on "What are you listening to now", I have decided to be much more "doctrinaire".

Hence : I've been listening to Beethoven's Triple Concerto (Roger Stonker [piano], Bang Thewood (violin] and Oops Wrongnote [cello] with the Redneck Symphony Orchestra [Ohio] directed by Ivor Bad-Ear (1958). It was very nice. Made me think of big white clouds. Lovely.