What Are You Listening To Now?

[Quijote]

Oh, and I've been "listening" again to Cage's 4'33" - a seminal "work". Lovely. Not big white fluffy clouds this time. I'll leave it there, because Chris has told me not to take things so seriously.

[Quijote]

And some differences in the length and angle of the neck, as well as a heavier bass bar. Also the strings.

Thank you, Chris, for the historical input. However, you fail to tell us what impacts these modifications might have on what we actually hear. You allude to neck length, angle, sound bar etc. But then again, perhaps I should relax and not let such aspects disturb my equilibrium.

[Peter]

I in turn disagree (paragraph 1 above in Peter's quote). A book exists as a "work" because it does not necessitate a public reading to be called "a reading" (or a "performance"). The play exists for the same reasons. However, a musician (or other musically literate person) "reading through the score" in his/her inner ear does not constitute a performance, given that the score "demands" its realization through the specified instrument(s). If one were able to "realize" musical "works" only through "inner ear readings" this would remove the point of instrumentation, or even of having live performances in general. Whereas "words" are equally "symbolic" of meaning, in as much as there is a semiotic relationship between "symbol" [word] and "signification" (Cf Saussure), the relationship between notated (musical)symbol and its realization is much less evident.

It is a good point, though, that you raise : can we indeed say the "work" exists before the composer writes it down? Platonists go even further : that the "work" exists even before the composer has conceived the "work". Nominalists (such as Goodman mentioned above) claim that a "work" of music can only exist if 100% replicable from the score. This is difficult to sustain, given Cage's approach to composition, not to mention jazz and other less-notated musical genres.

Your contention that this topic will be difficult to relate to Beethoven is misguided, Peter : the notion of the "work concept" (Cf Lydia Goehr, The Imaginary Museum of Musical Works) seems to have crystallized exactly around the time of Beethoven (around 1800), and so is extremely pertinent.

Then we must continue to disagree! If a play exists as a work then so does a musical score as both require performance to be fully realised, yet it is my contention that that extra dimension is not essential for it to exist in the first place. If I read through a score and hear the sounds in my head (assuming I'm not of Schizoid tendency) where do they come from if they do not exist until 'performed'?

My point concerning relevance to Beethoven is that it will be hard to keep it within such narrow confines - you have already dragged in Plato, Goodman and Jazz to name a few! Seriously though I am willing to take the topic further but in a separate thread I think.

[Sorrano]

Currently, I am listening to Beethoven's first Cello Concerto.

[Preston]

Currently, I am listening to Beethoven's first Cello Concerto.

I didn't think that Beethoven wrote a cello concerto, ? Do you mean his cello sonata?

[Sorrano]

I didn't think that Beethoven wrote a cello concerto, ? Do you mean his cello sonata?

And if you thought you didn't know about the FIRST Cello Concerto you should hear the SECOND one! Had to see if anyone was awake here. Yes, I did mean the SONATA, sorry for the error.

[Peter]

And if you thought you didn't know about the FIRST Cello Concerto you should hear the SECOND one! Had to see if anyone was awake here.

Not at 1.42am GMT!

[Peter]

Currently listening to myself performing Bach's lovely G major French suite - also listening to Gould's interpretation which I dislike.

[Quijote]

If I read through a score and hear the sounds in my head (assuming I'm not of Schizoid tendency) where do they come from if they do not exist until 'performed'?

A counter example, then. Let us take any of Cage's "aleatoric / graphic" works. There is a "score" (squiggles on a page, a graphic image, whatever). You cannot hear it in your head prior to its actual realization, but it remains "a work by Cage". Its next performance will (I imagine, necessarily) be different. But it will always be Work XX by Cage. So, what makes it a "work"? It cannot be a question of "being 100% replicable" (Goodman / idealism), but then again, no one performance of B's Op. 18 is equally 100% replicable because the score is, necessarily, 'deficient'. A score is not a blue print, nor a "genetic recipe" for building an organism. So, this implies there are certain "identity conditions" that make us say "this is a work by so-and-so". And what are these "conditions"? Again, what, ontologically, is a "work of music"?

My apologies, this should be on a separate thread. What to call it? And it is relevant to Beethoven, for reasons I hope to clarify later.

[Sorrano]

Tonight it was Ligeti's Melodien (sorry if I spelled that wrong). That is a wonderful orchestral work, beautiful colors! It is the kind of piece that I prefer to listen to in total darkness so that I can concentrate on the shifting colors and rhythms.

[Peter]

My apologies, this should be on a separate thread. What to call it? And it is relevant to Beethoven, for reasons I hope to clarify later.

There is now a separate thread for this!

[Peter]

Schumann's C major symphony - not my favourite of the 4 (that is no.3) but some fine moments.

[Sorrano]

This morning the radio featured a Clarinet Concerto by a Swedish composer, named Kruzer (not sure of the spelling). Anyone know much about this composer?

[Hofrat]

Bernhard Henrik Crusell (1775-1838).

Self-taught clarinetist, Crusell became one of the most celebrated and highly paid personalities in Swedish musical life in the early 19th century. He was recognized as one of the great clarinet virtuosi of his day and he introduced Mozart's clarinet concerto to Swedish audiences. He studied composition under Joachim Eggert (1779-1813) and completed 3 clarinet concerti and many chamber works that featured the clarinet.

[JoshB]

I'm listening to Haydn's first cello concerto. Spirited stuff.