Beethoven's 9th

[TIM]

My homework for Music is to point out what is different about Beethoven's 9th Symphony. Please can anyone help me as I am new to Beethoven, I an 11 years old. Thankyou

[Peter]

The very opening of the symphony with soft tremolando strings is highly original and was much imitated by later composers. Placing the Scherzo before the Adagio as the 2nd movement was also unusual as was his use of the timpani in the scherzo. In the opening section of the finale the themes of the previous movements are quoted giving an overall unity to the symphony which again was a device used by later composers. But the most obvious difference is that the last movement includes a chorus and vocal soloists.

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'Man know thyself'

[lysander]

Symphony No.9, was the first symphony to introduce the human voice, in the choral finale.
Beethoven offered the "Ode to Joy" as a hymn of adoration and thanksgiving to God for His goodness, in the anticipation of the ultimate everlasting joy of perfect happiness for all humankind in heaven beyond the starry skies.

[Joy]

I hadn't realized that the timpani in the scherzo movement was so unusual at the time. Very interesting as that is my favourite symphony instrument. It adds such power and thunder to a piece.

Joy

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Joy:
I hadn't realized that the timpani in the scherzo movement was so unusual at the time. Very interesting as that is my favourite symphony instrument. It adds such power and thunder to a piece.

Joy

I usually feel a little sorry for the tympanist as he/she has to count so many bars before playing a few... "908...909...910...911...am I due for an oil change?...Oh God I missed it!"

But your description was exciting, Joy.

[John Rasmussen]

Originally posted by Joy:
I hadn't realized that the timpani in the scherzo movement was so unusual at the time. Very interesting as that is my favourite symphony instrument. It adds such power and thunder to a piece.

Joy

What is unusual is not so much the mere use of timpani, but their tuning in octaves. Most timpani parts before then were in intervals of a fourth or a fifth, tonic and dominant, or I and V to the theorists. True, LvB's 8th Symphony also called for timpani tuned in octaves, but that was on the tonic. The timpani in the 9th Scherzo are both in F, but the movement is D minor! This tuning enabled the drums to carry the theme on occasion, rather than simply providing extra thunder.

Q. Why did the conductor do so badly in the Ninth's second movement?

A. Because he was Scherzo!

[Peter]

Originally posted by Joy:
I hadn't realized that the timpani in the scherzo movement was so unusual at the time. Very interesting as that is my favourite symphony instrument. It adds such power and thunder to a piece.

Joy

I meant the way he uses them was unusual - the effect was so startling at the premier that the audience broke into spontaneous applause.

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'Man know thyself'

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Peter:
I meant the way he uses them was unusual - the effect was so startling at the premier that the audience broke into spontaneous applause.

In the slow movement of the 4th Symphony we can see more unusual treatment of the timpani where there is a solo for the instrument. While unusual, it is very effective. I think the tuning of the timpani in the scherzo of the 9th was in part for comical reasons as well as effect. After all, this is a scherzo.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
I usually feel a little sorry for the tympanist as he/she has to count so many bars before playing a few... "908...909...910...911...am I due for an oil change?...Oh God I missed it!"

But your description was exciting, Joy.

I see your point. Here in April the Phoenix Symphony has a day where the public can 'try out' some instruments. It's called a 'petting instrument zoo'. I really wanted to try the timpani but they didn't have it at the event. I got to try the violin and french horn. Fun, but I wanted a shot at that timpani!

Joy

[Peter]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
In the slow movement of the 4th Symphony we can see more unusual treatment of the timpani where there is a solo for the instrument. While unusual, it is very effective. I think the tuning of the timpani in the scherzo of the 9th was in part for comical reasons as well as effect. After all, this is a scherzo.

His use of the timpani is unusual in the 4th and very clever in the 1st mov where he uses them enharmonically - the strings play A# against the timpani's Bb. Other examples are in the 3rd mov of the Emperor concerto and perhaps most startling of all (but rarely heard), the cadenza to the piano version of the violin concerto.


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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

Originally posted by John Rasmussen:
What is unusual is not so much the mere use of timpani, but their tuning in octaves. Most timpani parts before then were in intervals of a fourth or a fifth, tonic and dominant, or I and V to the theorists. True, LvB's 8th Symphony also called for timpani tuned in octaves, but that was on the tonic. The timpani in the 9th Scherzo are both in F, but the movement is D minor! This tuning enabled the drums to carry the theme on occasion, rather than simply providing extra thunder.

Q. Why did the conductor do so badly in the Ninth's second movement?

A. Because he was Scherzo!

Ha! Ha! Thanks for all the information, seriously, I learned some things I didn't realize about the timpani. The 8th Symphony was the music that got me to fall in love with that instrument in the first place.

Joy

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Peter:
His use of the timpani is unusual in the 4th and very clever in the 1st mov where he uses them enharmonically - the strings play A# against the timpani's Bb. Other examples are in the 3rd mov of the Emperor concerto and perhaps most startling of all (but rarely heard), the cadenza to the piano version of the violin concerto.

I had forgotten about the piano version of the violin concerto. That has to be my favorite cadenza of Beethoven's! I will have to go and find my record that has that concerto and play it again.

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Peter:
His use of the timpani is unusual in the 4th and very clever in the 1st mov where he uses them enharmonically - the strings play A# against the timpani's Bb. Other examples are in the 3rd mov of the Emperor concerto and perhaps most startling of all (but rarely heard), the cadenza to the piano version of the violin concerto.

What's the difference between A# and Bb?

[spaceray]

is Bb Minor =A#Minor ?

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
What's the difference between A# and Bb?

On the keyboard they are the same note, though harmonically different. In the 4th symphony the A# suggests the dominant of B major which is remote from the tonic key of Bb - however the timpani play Bb which allows the strings to slip into the tonic key - a magical moment!

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'Man know thyself'