What is this ornament?

[Chris]

Take a look at this PDF of Bach's Schubler chorales:

http://216.129.110.22/files/imglnks/...WV_645-650.pdf

On the first page of music, in the 8th measure, on the last note of the measure in the right hand, an E-flat, there is an ornament I am not familiar with.

Does anyone know the name of this ornament?

[Peter]

It is a 'short' appoggiatura, played quickly almost in effect like the acciaccatura.

[Chris]

Really? I'm talking about the thing that looks like what these days is called a mordant, placed directly in the staff instead of above the note, and seemingly slurred to that E-flat. I've heard people play it like two quick notes, C and D, leading up to the E-flat, but I don't even know if they were looking at an edition with that thing there.

[Quijote]

I'm afraid I have no idea what the name of this ornament is, but I did surf some performances on the Web and indeed it seems to be played as a double-note (C-D) acciaccatura. What exactly is the edition you posted? I have trouble reading gothic German.

[Roehre]

Take a look at this PDF of Bach's Schubler chorales:

http://216.129.110.22/files/imglnks/...WV_645-650.pdf

On the first page of music, in the 8th measure, on the last note of the measure in the right hand, an E-flat, there is an ornament I am not familiar with.

Does anyone know the name of this ornament?

IMO it's an ascending slide(German: Schleifer), also known as elevation, consisting of a little conjunct run of 2 accessary notes leading to its main note, in this case very short c, d to e-flat.
Quite common in German baroque, especially JSBach, but disappeared in the early years of the 19th century.
See e.g. Grove's 1980 dictionary vol.13 p.834-835.

[Chris]

What exactly is the edition you posted? I have trouble reading gothic German.

Bach-Gesellschaft Ausgabe, Band 25
Leipzig: Breitkopf & Härtel, 1878. Plate B.W. XXV.

[Sorrano]

Interestingly enough, 5 measures after the 2nd ending (including the second ending) you have a similar passage senza the ornament. I wonder if it or the omission was an error?

[Chris]

IMO it's an ascending slide(German: Schleifer), also known as elevation, consisting of a little conjunct run of 2 accessary notes leading to its main note, in this case very short c, d to e-flat.
Quite common in German baroque, especially JSBach, but disappeared in the early years of the 19th century.
See e.g. Grove's 1980 dictionary vol.13 p.834-835.

It looks like you're right, Roehre. This page: http://arts.jrank.org/pages/6256/slide.html indicates it was even used in Beethoven's Op. 135!

[Chris]

Interestingly enough, 5 measures after the 2nd ending (including the second ending) you have a similar passage senza the ornament. I wonder if it or the omission was an error?

The ornamentation is a little different in repetitions of the same material in this edition, which is consistent with Baroque performance practice. My organ teacher tells me to never ornament the same passage the exact same way.

[Sorrano]

The ornamentation is a little different in repetitions of the same material in this edition, which is consistent with Baroque performance practice. My organ teacher tells me to never ornament the same passage the exact same way.

That makes sense; thanks!

[Roehre]

Bach-Gesellschaft Ausgabe, Band 25
Leipzig: Breitkopf & Härtel, 1878. Plate B.W. XXV.

IIRC Brahms was one of the editors of this edition, under supervision of Wilhelm Rust.

[Quijote]

Well done everyone! I am grateful to note that with Ferneyhough this problem would never arise, as even the instrumentalist's sweat beads and intakes of breath are notated. Hah!

[Quijote]

Still, makes you think, doesn't it, about the "sacredness" of the score (= text). Or rather how inexact a score is. Apart from Ferneyhough (see above). There are no such notational problems with electroacoustic works (be that magnetic tape or digital) for obvious reasons. Do forgive a bit of missionary zeal.

[Sorrano]

Still, makes you think, doesn't it, about the "sacredness" of the score (= text). Or rather how inexact a score is. Apart from Ferneyhough (see above). There are no such notational problems with electroacoustic works (be that magnetic tape or digital) for obvious reasons. Do forgive a bit of missionary zeal.

Isn't Boulez pretty detailed with his scores, as well? Then there is the lack of standard symbols, especially for more recent compositions.

[Quijote]

Isn't Boulez pretty detailed with his scores, as well? Then there is the lack of standard symbols, especially for more recent compositions.

He is, but not to the extreme of Ferneyhough!