Eroica (2003 TV movie)

[Chris]

I think there was some discussion of this UK movie a while back, but I just recently saw it (on YouTube), so I wanted to comment on it.

I liked it. Ian Hart made a pretty good middle-period Beethoven. And the concept of just playing the entire piece and having most of the movie be reactions of the people listening was a good one, though it was perhaps a bit overdone in places, but not badly. Nice costumes and sets too. Great performance of the symphony itself as well, which I believe was by John Eliot Gardiner.

One thing I especially liked was the portrayal of Haydn, whom I have always had a great deal of difficulty imagining. But that performance really seemed to fit. One thing, though - when Haydn remarks that ever since his dear wife died, all he could think about was when death would come. I thought Haydn didn't even like his wife?

Anyway, it was an enjoyable movie, and not very long, so check it out if you haven't seen it yet.

[Michael]

I found it extremely good. The DVD also includes a full performance of the symphony as shown in the film, but minus the dialogue and other interruptions. Good point about Haydn's wife, although maybe he did love her, in spite of the fact that she used some of his scores to light the fire.

[Phil Leeds]

I quite enjoyed the film too (was it really 2003, how time flies!) and agree about the portrayal of Haydn, I liked Ries too. I wasn't too sure about Ian Hart to be honest, but the bit that I really did not like was when B. swears at Ries for the interuption when the horn player "appears" to come in too early - was that language really of the time? Would have been better to use German I thought.

[Chris]

I agree Phil, that part did take me out of it a bit. And I'm not sure about Ries; was he really such a pale, weak, insecure person?

[Preston]

I believe Ian Hart's portrayal of Beethoven was too weak. It seemed to lack the suffering of a man who was going deaf, had tinnitus, was eccentric, raised from the background Beethoven came from, etc.

[Preston]

I disagree; I found it far from the "cult myth" surrounding Beethoven, and showed him as the man he probably was.

I agree with you about the cult-like image of Beethoven. Yet, Beethoven did suffer a tremendous amount. I imagine that Beethoven was full of strength and weakness, as most human beings are.

What I don't like is when people think that Beethoven was this "all stong" human who fought his way, without second thought, through all of his troubles- and "never shed tears". That to my mind is nonsense. I imagine that Beethoven shed many and that he was full of all kinds of emotion and feelings.

Hart's performance, just did not do it for me, at all. Though, I think it is touching to see a more truthful side of Beethoven.

[Preston]

Hart's performance, just did not do it for me, at all. Though, I think it is touching to see a more truthful side of Beethoven.

I am not going to say, "at all", because it did show a more touching side of Beethoven. All of these movies get me confused!

[Chris]

What a sensitive soul you are, Chris. Does B's music do the same for you? That is, "take you out of it a bit"? We do hope so.

By "take me out of it" I mean that it struck me as something untrue the period. Any kind of slang or colloquialism tends to do that for me in films taking place in the past.

[Phil Leeds]

I too thought this film very good, excellent even. Concerning Ian Hart, what exactly weren't you "too sure about", Phil Leeds?

I also liked the portrayal of Ries, especially his standing posture - just as portrayed in those classical-period paintings.

I, for one, fully appreciated B's swearing : Beethoven was known for his outbursts and vulgarity, and I think "Piss off!" is very probably quite close to the sentiment he wished to express. And why suddenly switch to German when the rest of the dialogue is in English? A most incoherent wish of yours, if I may say so.

It's difficult for me to put my finger on it, I guess the trouble is that I (and perhaps others) struggle to really imagine what the man was like - he just seemed a bit too smooth I suppose and not rough at the edges nor rugged. AS for the "Piss off" although I don't think it is actually documented exactly what was said, switching to the a German swear word of the time might have worked better - what was said just seems too modern to me.
Yes, I liked Haydn's comment too - did this mark the birth of the Romantic style in music then? I always thought, so but read in anothr thread that B should not be classed as of the Romanti genre

[Chris]

OK, fair enough. I wonder though what you suggest had you written the screenplay. I do remember reading a comment Beethoven had scribbled next to some less than enthusiastic review of his work - I can't repeat it here, it's far too uncouth!

There was no reason to have anything there at all. Beethoven yelling at him to stand out of the way was enough. Historical appropriateness aside, I thought that line in the movie was oddly redundant and used in a way that wasn't even all that similar to how it is actually used these days. It just stood out as odd to me.

[DavidO]

I liked it. Ian Hart made a pretty good middle-period Beethoven. And the concept of just playing the entire piece and having most of the movie be reactions of the people listening was a good one, though it was perhaps a bit overdone in places, but not badly. Nice costumes and sets too. Great performance of the symphony itself as well, which I believe was by John Eliot Gardiner.

Did the soundtrack merely use the Gardiner recording from the Archiv label, or did Gardiner & Orchestre record a new performance of it solely for the film?

I saw this film a couple of years ago. The idea is a tantalizing one: recording the reactions of the audience in the prince's palace. I thought the whole thing was enjoyable, but I didn't consider it a major achievement. The camera is of course enclosed in the salon with everyone else, & so is forced to move about a lot & to zoom hither & yon in order to keep visual interest. And how long, really, can one with continuing pleasure watch nothing but the faces of people who are themselves merely reacting to something? That's really the problem with the movie's concept. After awhile, I got a little weary of the camera work; darting about all the time didn't feel natural to me. (When I'm in an audience at a concert, I look around a little, but I don't keep throwing my gaze around constantly throughout the entire performance. My eyeballs would tense up & probably trigger a migraine.)

Another aesthetic problem I have with many of the Beethoven fiction films is that they throw all the historical anecdotes together in a blender & press PUREE, & then pour the mess all over everything. It feels like reading the Cliff's Notes version of a dozen Beethoven biographies, with all the anecdotes & quotes from the annals coming at you one after another. So too with this EROICA film -- even more so, because it's shorter than feature length. Beethoven loved to walk in the countryside, so BAM we get Beethoven & Ries walking in the countryside. Beethoven was prone to snivel, so BAM we get Beethoven sniveling. We know Beethoven made fun of his brother once by calling himself a brain owner, so BAM we get that anecdote thrown in.

The final reaction I remember having was that the color was so dull! The lighting was too natural, too, filtering in from the windows. I remember seeing nothing but dust flying through the air. This craze for naturalism drives me nuts. That's why I love the old three-strip Technicolor of the 1940s: the scenes were heavily (& artificially) lighted & it was glorious. Plus, the color palette was so heavily saturated that it was like a child feasting on a huge book of fairy tales. Not realistic at all, but it galvanized the eye! Lobkowitz's palace had beautiful paintings in it, so why not LIGHT THEM so that they jump off the screen in all their beauty? It's a waste to take us viewers into a set like this one, & then make us squint our eyes from the glare of the window light & the dust.

[Chris]

Did the soundtrack merely use the Gardiner recording from the Archiv label, or did Gardiner & Orchestre record a new performance of it solely for the film?

It must have been done for the film, since the music is not played straight through, but starts and stops and includes mistakes and redos to support the story.

[Preston]

The final reaction I remember having was that the color was so dull! The lighting was too natural, too, filtering in from the windows. I remember seeing nothing but dust flying through the air. This craze for naturalism drives me nuts. That's why I love the old three-strip Technicolor of the 1940s: the scenes were heavily (& artificially) lighted & it was glorious. Plus, the color palette was so heavily saturated that it was like a child feasting on a huge book of fairy tales. Not realistic at all, but it galvanized the eye! Lobkowitz's palace had beautiful paintings in it, so why not LIGHT THEM so that they jump off the screen in all their beauty? It's a waste to take us viewers into a set like this one, & then make us squint our eyes from the glare of the window light & the dust.

Well, it didn't seem to be a "high-budget" movie. Though, I have warmed up to the movie, and, find the lighting was different than what you would expect in a Beethoven movie, because, it was not depressing lighting, all dark and dreary. I think a point in the movie was to show a vision of Beethoven that was not so "dark"?

[Michael]

It must have been done for the film, since the music is not played straight through, but starts and stops and includes mistakes and redos to support the story.

But Gardiner did do a complete performance as it's on the DVD as an added feature - minus all the stops and starts.
By the way, the dust referred to is picture grain. All the indoor scenes seem to have been shot in a very poor light but I think this really does give the authentic candelight effect of what it must have been like in those days.

[Chris]

Also, my favorite part:

"HORNS!"