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Old 01-16-2017, 03:04 PM   #1
Peter
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Lightbulb Rattle on Beethoven

This article appeared earlier last year but I love Sir Simon Rattle's reference to Beethoven's 1st symphony as 'Haydn on steroids'!
http://www.classical-music.com/artic...r-simon-rattle
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:19 PM   #2
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This article appeared earlier last year but I love Sir Simon Rattle's reference to Beethoven's 1st symphony as 'Haydn on steroids'!
http://www.classical-music.com/artic...r-simon-rattle
I can't stand when early Beethoven such as the first two symphonies, op. 18, etc. are compared to Haydn or Mozart.
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Old 01-17-2017, 07:03 AM   #3
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Lightbulb

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Originally Posted by Zevy View Post
I can't stand when early Beethoven such as the first two symphonies, op. 18, etc. are compared to Haydn or Mozart.
Why not Zevy? Such a comparison is inevitable and happened in Beethoven's own lifetime. Beethoven learnt a great deal from Haydn's music and we know that Beethoven modelled Op.18 no.5 on Mozart's quartet in the same key (K. 464). I agree Rattle's comment is a little over the top, (though I find it quite amusing) and it might be more applicable to Prokofiev's 1st symphony!
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Old 01-17-2017, 08:38 PM   #4
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Why not Zevy? Such a comparison is inevitable and happened in Beethoven's own lifetime. Beethoven learnt a great deal from Haydn's music and we know that Beethoven modelled Op.18 no.5 on Mozart's quartet in the same key (K. 464). I agree Rattle's comment is a little over the top, (though I find it quite amusing) and it might be more applicable to Prokofiev's 1st symphony!
Let me please clarify, Peter. To compare is very acceptable. I am familiar with the comparison of Op. 18/5 to K. 464, although I think of it in only terms of key & structure, just as the comparison of the two piano quintets (K. 452 & Op. 16) and string trios (K. 563 & Op. 3). I just don't like when someone states that this-and-this piece by Beethoven is so Mozartian, or something similar.
I must confess of one strong similarity, although I wouldn't use the terms that others use. That is of Schubert's Bb symphony (#5) and Mozart's 2nd Gm (#40). I love what I once read in liner notes (I can't recall where) that it's as though Beethoven didn't exist!
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:06 AM   #5
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Yes I understand where you're coming from now - we also get remarks about Beethoven being 'Schubertian' in works such as the 2nd movt of Op.90 ignoring the fact that that piece could only have influenced Schubert, not the other way round.
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:51 PM   #6
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As I said in another posting, I have once seen a performance of Beethoven's 1st 'as if it had been composed 10 years later'. This performance, with Gardiner and the LSO, was simply electrifying. And it was very convincing, which is all it needs to be.
I don't mind the 'classical' interpretations, nor do I mind it if a conductor tells you a story that is different even if it is with the same notes. I would have liked Beethoven to have experienced this... who knows what he would have said.... from what I understand of his character, he could have flown in a rage, or loved it!
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Old 01-22-2017, 03:18 AM   #7
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from what I understand of his character, he could have flown in a rage, or loved it!
I love that!
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:53 PM   #8
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In my opinion, the new Rattle performances with the Berliner Philharmoniker (which I got for Christmas ) are a vast improvement on the 2002 recordings with the VPO. Greater sound quality and Rattle appears to have left his wanting to linger a little longer on some phrases with the VPO.
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