New orchestra

[Peter]

I understand the point she is trying to make, but is this really the way to go?

http://www.theguardian.com/music/201...eke-foundation

[Sorrano]

Peter, the link appears to be broken.

[Peter]

Sorry - I just feel her approach is wrong and the way to go would be through education in the schools.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/201...eke-foundation

[Chris]

I agree, Peter. This seems like it might create the perception of division, even where there is none.

[AeolianHarp]

Just reading this now. Already this stood out for me:

I’m a classical musician, an all too rare black face on concert platforms among what are usually all-white orchestras. My Nigerian father and Irish mother brought me up believing that I could do anything I wanted

She is not "full black"- she is mixed ethnicity. (There is only one race- the human race, the word race is used incorrectly here as it often is- race here= ethnicity).

We were the only black family at my primary and secondary schools, and I didn’t think at all about being the only black student at the Royal Academy of Music. My attitude is that if anyone has a problem with the colour of my skin it’s their problem not mine; I don’t think I necessarily even notice what my colleagues might term racism.

Her skin colour is very light - I've been darker after a couple of weeks in Italy! And she has blue eyes! My eyes are dark brown and I am nowhere near what one would call "black"- I am of Irish, Welsh and English ( Lancs) heritage. Funny how the term black is used when people haven't black skin at all! Are there in fact any people with true black skin?? Very dark brown yes. I think it'd be more correct to describe this lady as African- Irish or Irish- African. She is very pretty and she looks Irish- African to me- a mix of both.

[Peter]

Just reading this now. Already this stood out for me:



She is not "full black"- she is mixed ethnicity. (There is only one race- the human race, the word race is used incorrectly here as it often is- race here= ethnicity).



Her skin colour is very light - I've been darker after a couple of weeks in Italy! And she has blue eyes! My eyes are dark brown and I am nowhere near what one would call "black"- I am of Irish, Welsh and English ( Lancs) heritage. Funny how the term black is used when people haven't black skin at all! Are there in fact any people with true black skin?? Very dark brown yes. I think it'd be more correct to describe this lady as African- Irish or Irish- African. She is very pretty and she looks Irish- African to me- a mix of both.

Maybe, but the most important point is that she is a damn fine Double-Bass player regardless of her ethnicity which should be of no consideration in musical matters. Why create an orchestra that highlights division when we should be encouraging inclusiveness? Now I'm sure she sincerely believes that it will encourage black people to regard classical music more as their heritage and of course it is - it belongs to all humanity, but I think this should be done through education because it is not just black people who are being denied this. It is interesting that countries such as China and South Korea no longer have a cultural problem with western classical music and have fully embraced it.

http://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Cultu...ticleId=100556

This article shows us how we are failing not just our ethnic minorities but all our young children by denying them access to the global heritage of classical music. Education, investment in the arts and placing a proper value on classical music instead of presenting it as elitist is the way forward.
Daniel Barenboim I think is doing more in the right way on this issue. He recently revealed his intention to take western classical music to Africa, saying: ’I feel I have had enough admiration and glory and love [...] Now I would like have some time to spend exploring places that music has not been brought to.’

[AeolianHarp]

Maybe, but the most important point is that she is a damn fine Double-Bass player regardless of her ethnicity which should be of no consideration in musical matters.

I agree Peter. Remember George Bridgetower? He seemed to do rather well despite the far more exclusive time he lived in. Beethoven wasn't interested in Bridgetower's skin colour- just the man's virtuoso violin skills. Funny how Chi Chi never mentioned him.

Why create an orchestra that highlights division when we should be encouraging inclusiveness? Now I'm sure she sincerely believes that it will encourage black people to regard classical music more as their heritage and of course it is - it belongs to all humanity, but I think this should be done through education because it is not just black people who are being denied this. It is interesting that countries such as China and South Korea no longer have a cultural problem with western classical music and have fully embraced it.

Yes, I agree agree again- inclusiveness is the way forward, and classical music belongs to all humanity not just white Westerners. In the beginning it came from Europe, but then that is only if we are looking at the composers from Europe- there is also classical music of Asia such as Japanese. And the modern and post modern classical music of our times has branched into various styles, using new instruments etc, so that it is now difficult to define "classical music." I think it is good that she promoted the African/European composer though- I shall look up his work. That would be a positive part of inclusiveness by giving concert's of his works.

http://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Cultu...ticleId=100556

This article shows us how we are failing not just our ethnic minorities but all our young children by denying them access to the global heritage of classical music. Education, investment in the arts and placing a proper value on classical music instead of presenting it as elitist is the way forward.

Thanks, I shall look it up. You are right- it isn't a skin colour issue- more of a money based issue- if a child has well off parents and goes to a private school then they have more chance of access to music studies/education. I was excluded from this as much as any "black" youngster is by being from a council estate, having poor parents, and going to a rubbish comprehensive school.

Daniel Barenboim I think is doing more in the right way on this issue. He recently revealed his intention to take western classical music to Africa, saying: ’I feel I have had enough admiration and glory and love [...] Now I would like have some time to spend exploring places that music has not been brought to.’

Good for him.

[Peter]

I agree Peter. Remember George Bridgetower? He seemed to do rather well despite the far more exclusive time he lived in. Beethoven wasn't interested in Bridgetower's skin colour- just the man's virtuoso violin skills. Funny how Chi Chi never mentioned him.




Yes, I agree agree again- inclusiveness is the way forward, and classical music belongs to all humanity not just white Westerners. In the beginning it came from Europe, but then that is only if we are looking at the composers from Europe- there is also classical music of Asia such as Japanese. And the modern and post modern classical music of our times has branched into various styles, using new instruments etc, so that it is now difficult to define "classical music." I think it is good that she promoted the African/European composer though- I shall look up his work. That would be a positive part of inclusiveness by giving concert's of his works.





Thanks, I shall look it up. You are right- it isn't a skin colour issue- more of a money based issue- if a child has well off parents and goes to a private school then they have more chance of access to music studies/education. I was excluded from this as much as any "black" youngster is by being from a council estate, having poor parents, and going to a rubbish comprehensive school.



Good for him.

Yes, but whilst lack of money can indeed be a problem for those wishing to learn an instrument, access to classical music because of the internet has never been greater and Youtube doesn't cost! So for children of all backgrounds in the west it is mainly an image problem caused by a society that doesn't value its heritage.

Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges was indeed a remarkable man - equally talented with a violin bow, conductor's baton, fencing foil and composer's quill. I think he had something in common with Bridgetower in that they both performed for the Prince Regent at the Brighton Pavilion - Bridgetower with his violin and Bologne with his foil!

[AeolianHarp]

Yes, but whilst lack of money can indeed be a problem for those wishing to learn an instrument, access to classical music because of the internet has never been greater and Youtube doesn't cost! So for children of all backgrounds in the west it is mainly an image problem caused by a society that doesn't value its heritage.

Well yes, if one wants to listen to classical music or watch a concert you tube is great for that! But to learn an instrument, well....one can learn a bit from videos; that's better for adult beginners really ( children may not be able to learn solely from videos..) but still a teacher is needed to get to a good level of proficiency, and then music college etc- that all costs money that low income families haven't got. But if the image problem wasn't there then music might be on the curriculum in all schools and given the value it deserves.

Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges was indeed a remarkable man - equally talented with a violin bow, conductor's baton, fencing foil and composer's quill. I think he had something in common with Bridgetower in that they both performed for the Prince Regent at the Brighton Pavilion - Bridgetower with his violin and Bologne with his foil!

Well I hope the Prince Regent appreciated such fine talent!

[Peter]

I suppose this is relevant to this thread -

http://www.theguardian.com/music/tom...oven-was-black