I would like to say firstly, that I'm a 46 year old beginner on piano, as some of you know already, ( not even grade 1, never took any exams) and that this discussion is not meant to start any arguments, but to start a discussion on different approaches to piano learning/playing.
I would also like to state that I have discalculia and that makes sight reading difficult for me, though I keep on with it. I am not a fan of pop music, as you all probably know, which of course is generally easier to learn to play! I have some "easy beginner" sheet music of classical music, such as the theme of the 7th symphony, the Surprise symphony etc and I enjoy this far more than practising pop music ( which of course would be an easier job!).
I do have pianoforall course and was a while back working on book one and learning chords via pop tunes like The Beatles- I found this fairly easy.
My brother plays piano ( just been to his flat today to see his new Yamaha DP). He has been playing for years and did a music course at college about 20 years ago, which was the chords based approach- with no reading music. He cannot read music, but his playing far far surpasses mine. He started playing aged about 18. He can play by ear also, has written music and played in bands.
He said to me today that given my age, that I would be far better starting with the chords based approach; that is learning all the chords, key signatures, scales etc, so that when I look at my piano's keyboard I don't see just a "sea of keys", but chords, scales etc and be able to sit down and, for example, choose a key like B major, and be able to improvise a tune on the piano in it ad hoc. This would also involve understanding all the modulations, relative keys, sevenths, inversions, harmonies etc. I hope I explain this allright- I'm still learning basic music theory- it's why I'm doing all those music courses on coursera! ( I can't afford a music teacher at the moment).
He said that to set the task of wanting to be able to play classical pieces to any proficiency is setting myself an extremely hard task, and really one needs to have started this in childhood, as the level of skill involved takes years and years to learn. He was also talking about concert pianist level. ( I said even people who start as a child may not reach this level- that he is talking here of virtuosity! Which is not any adult beginner's goal- though how most of us would love to attain that!!) I said yes, this is mostly true, but that many adult beginners I have encountered, even aged in their 50s, have got up to grade 5 in about 3 years. I have seen many on pianoworld achieve this!
However, I will say that I have noticed that adult piano players who start in adulthood, I mean, who seem to be able to just play ad hoc/improvise and learn faster, do seem to be those who go down the chords based/play by ear method, and can't sight read. Of course they can't play Beethoven sonatas to the high level required, but they may be able to noodle a simple variation of one. I know an elderly man who can do this on his harp. He started self teaching in his retirement. He can't read a note.
I can myself, pick notes of pop tuners by ear, and some right hand notes of classical pieces, so I know I do have some ear ability. I have a few bars of the Largo from New World Symphony in my Alfred's piano book, and when I first played that I then went on to play a bit more ( that is not in the book) by ear.
I was practising Greensleeves 2 weeks ago from another piano book I have and I started by looking at the sheet music, then I found I was continuing it by ear.
My brother showed me a programme on his ipad which is a midi sequencer, which you have running and it shows the piano keys and you play along to it- you can choose either visuals, or notes. He said this would be very helpful to me. I could see that, as I have found in the past, I learn something faster by you tube demos ( where someone plays something broken down into sections, you see the keys and play what you see)- I learned to play some of Fur Elise that way!
This is the sort of thing:
http://www.piano-midi.de/debuss.htm
I brought my music books to my brother's and he couldn't read the sheet music, but if they had the chords and key signatures, he could play the music far better than I!
I was struggling with the below Haydn piece- and he ran it off far better than I!
http://www.8notes.com/scores/436.asp
Though, he did play it legato, and I told him it should be staccato!
So- thoughts? Any adult beginners here who have tried both methods or anyone you know/taught? What worked better for you?
I would also like to state that I have discalculia and that makes sight reading difficult for me, though I keep on with it. I am not a fan of pop music, as you all probably know, which of course is generally easier to learn to play! I have some "easy beginner" sheet music of classical music, such as the theme of the 7th symphony, the Surprise symphony etc and I enjoy this far more than practising pop music ( which of course would be an easier job!).
I do have pianoforall course and was a while back working on book one and learning chords via pop tunes like The Beatles- I found this fairly easy.
My brother plays piano ( just been to his flat today to see his new Yamaha DP). He has been playing for years and did a music course at college about 20 years ago, which was the chords based approach- with no reading music. He cannot read music, but his playing far far surpasses mine. He started playing aged about 18. He can play by ear also, has written music and played in bands.
He said to me today that given my age, that I would be far better starting with the chords based approach; that is learning all the chords, key signatures, scales etc, so that when I look at my piano's keyboard I don't see just a "sea of keys", but chords, scales etc and be able to sit down and, for example, choose a key like B major, and be able to improvise a tune on the piano in it ad hoc. This would also involve understanding all the modulations, relative keys, sevenths, inversions, harmonies etc. I hope I explain this allright- I'm still learning basic music theory- it's why I'm doing all those music courses on coursera! ( I can't afford a music teacher at the moment).
He said that to set the task of wanting to be able to play classical pieces to any proficiency is setting myself an extremely hard task, and really one needs to have started this in childhood, as the level of skill involved takes years and years to learn. He was also talking about concert pianist level. ( I said even people who start as a child may not reach this level- that he is talking here of virtuosity! Which is not any adult beginner's goal- though how most of us would love to attain that!!) I said yes, this is mostly true, but that many adult beginners I have encountered, even aged in their 50s, have got up to grade 5 in about 3 years. I have seen many on pianoworld achieve this!
However, I will say that I have noticed that adult piano players who start in adulthood, I mean, who seem to be able to just play ad hoc/improvise and learn faster, do seem to be those who go down the chords based/play by ear method, and can't sight read. Of course they can't play Beethoven sonatas to the high level required, but they may be able to noodle a simple variation of one. I know an elderly man who can do this on his harp. He started self teaching in his retirement. He can't read a note.
I can myself, pick notes of pop tuners by ear, and some right hand notes of classical pieces, so I know I do have some ear ability. I have a few bars of the Largo from New World Symphony in my Alfred's piano book, and when I first played that I then went on to play a bit more ( that is not in the book) by ear.
I was practising Greensleeves 2 weeks ago from another piano book I have and I started by looking at the sheet music, then I found I was continuing it by ear.
My brother showed me a programme on his ipad which is a midi sequencer, which you have running and it shows the piano keys and you play along to it- you can choose either visuals, or notes. He said this would be very helpful to me. I could see that, as I have found in the past, I learn something faster by you tube demos ( where someone plays something broken down into sections, you see the keys and play what you see)- I learned to play some of Fur Elise that way!
This is the sort of thing:
http://www.piano-midi.de/debuss.htm
I brought my music books to my brother's and he couldn't read the sheet music, but if they had the chords and key signatures, he could play the music far better than I!
I was struggling with the below Haydn piece- and he ran it off far better than I!
http://www.8notes.com/scores/436.asp
Though, he did play it legato, and I told him it should be staccato!
So- thoughts? Any adult beginners here who have tried both methods or anyone you know/taught? What worked better for you?
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