Beethoven sheet music question

[AeolianHarp]

I have this version of C sharp minor piano sonata in one of my piano books.

See attachment.

My q relates to bars 13 and 14. The right hand is written in bass cleff, then goes back to treble cleff at end of bar 14. Does this mean I play Bass cleff notes in right hand? The first bass cleff note is G? Then B The E that comes after Middle C???

And what about the note E in bass cleff? I play it with my left hand? Why are these notes suddenly written as bass cleff as most of them fall into treble cleff?

Forgive my stupid questions- I am hopeless at sight reading.

I still write the letters above the notes, using one of my music book guides before trying something out.

[Chris]

My q relates to bars 13 and 14. The right hand is written in bass cleff, then goes back to treble cleff at end of bar 14. Does this mean I play Bass cleff notes in right hand? The first bass cleff note is G? Then B The E that comes after Middle C???

That's correct. You play those notes with your right hand.

And what about the note E in bass cleff? I play it with my left hand?

Yes. Play the top line with the right hand and the bottom line with the left hand unless you are specifically told to do something else.

Why are these notes suddenly written as bass cleff as most of them fall into treble cleff?

It could have been, but it would have gotten a bit low on the staff, especially with that bracket below the notes. Whoever made this edition probably thought it looked better and clearer to do it this way.

[AeolianHarp]

Thank you Chris. I shall try it out later this evening!

[AeolianHarp]

I tried it out..the key it's in sounds strange. And I couldn't quite figure out how to play those notes above the others in the treble cleff.

And what does the 3 mean below the notes in bars 13 and 14?

[AeolianHarp]

I also got these versions online:

http://www.learnpianofreesheetmusic....ightSonata.pdf

http://www.scribd.com/doc/144144112/Moonlight-Sonata

Here's some you might like Megan:

http://moonlight-sonata-sheet-music....n-sheet-music/

[Chris]

I tried it out..the key it's in sounds strange.

You could transpose it to the original key of C-sharp minor, but you might as well just look at the actual piece.

And I couldn't quite figure out how to play those notes above the others in the treble cleff.

Play them with 5 (your pinky finger) while you are playing the notes below them with the other fingers of your right hand.

And what does the 3 mean below the notes in bars 13 and 14?

It means the same thing as it does in bar 1 - triplets. So three eighth notes to a beat instead of two. They are just writing it again there because instead of three notes, like it has been for the entire piece, it's one rest and two notes.

[AeolianHarp]

You could transpose it to the original key of C-sharp minor, but you might as well just look at the actual piece.

Yeah I have it saved on my laptop in my sheet music file- scarily too hard for me!

This one is in G major? So the sharps should be F sharp? I am still getting to work out key signatures- usually I figure out the sharps/flats (when trying something out) by ear lol.

Play them with 5 (your pinky finger) while you are playing the notes below them with the other fingers of your right hand.

Yes, I did think it must be the little finger...thanks Chris.

It means the same thing as it does in bar 1 - triplets. So three eighth notes to a beat instead of two. They are just writing it again there because instead of three notes, like it has been for the entire piece, it's one rest and two notes.

I really should learn how to use Privia's built in Metronome! I always rely on my hearing/memory of what something sounds like to get the beat/rhythms. Kind of works for me though. I have tried out pieces in my Alfred's piano book, then watched someone playing it on you tube, then played it right just by listening.

I am more of an ear person- I often start trying something out on sheet music ( that I know well to listen to) then end up playing some of it by ear!

At least it helps me know when I press a duff note!!!

[AeolianHarp]

By the way, how long have you been playing the piano for and what is your level?
It is hard for us adult beginners!

[Chris]

This one is in G major? So the sharps should be F sharp? I am still getting to work out key signatures- usually I figure out the sharps/flats (when trying something out) by ear lol.

E minor. If it were in a major key, yes, it would be G major. G major and E minor have one sharp in the key signature.

I really should learn how to use Privia's built in Metronome! I always rely on my hearing/memory of what something sounds like to get the beat/rhythms. Kind of works for me though. I have tried out pieces in my Alfred's piano book, then watched someone playing it on you tube, then played it right just by listening.

I am more of an ear person- I often start trying something out on sheet music ( that I know well to listen to) then end up playing some of it by ear!

At least it helps me know when I press a duff note!!!

If you are just enjoying yourself, that is fine of course, but if you are really interested in learning how to play, it would save you time in the long run and be a lot more enjoyable if you learned to read music and learned some basic piano technique and theory. If you can find a teacher, that would be the best way. If money is an issue, you can sometimes find young high school or college students who charge much less. Or you can buy a book or find a free course on the Internet. I'm sure you could work your way up to playing the first movement of the Moonlight if you did that.

[AeolianHarp]

E minor. If it were in a major key, yes, it would be G major. G major and E minor have one sharp in the key signature.

Ah thanks.

If you are just enjoying yourself, that is fine of course, but if you are really interested in learning how to play, it would save you time in the long run and be a lot more enjoyable if you learned to read music and learned some basic piano technique and theory. If you can find a teacher, that would be the best way. If money is an issue, you can sometimes find young high school or college students who charge much less. Or you can buy a book or find a free course on the Internet. I'm sure you could work your way up to playing the first movement of the Moonlight if you did that.

I used to have lessons a couple of years ago, then the teacher moved, but was just as well as I am not in paid work so can't afford them right now. But I have a teacher's website bookmarked for when I can.

I actually bought a set of lessons by pianoforall which I was working through, but I had some non related music issues happen which resulted in me not playing for awhile ( family bereavement and bad eczema bout). Must get back working on them. The Irish fellow Robin, who designed them is at hand to email for questions and so on. They are good lessons actually- with video demos. Was a great price too. One pays for them and downloads them. There's a few years' worth of books to get through!

I kind of like working through stuff at home and video piano lessons seen on you tube- less embarrassment. I was always highly embarrassed during piano lessons with shaking fingers!

As for me playing the proper first movement of the Sonata? Maybe in 50 years if I live that long heheh.

[Chris]

By the way, how long have you been playing the piano for and what is your level?
It is hard for us adult beginners!

I have been playing the piano since I was old enough to sit on the bench and reach the keys, but I did not take any formal lessons until I was 14 (I am 33 now). I had been taking violin lessons for years at that point, though, so I knew how to read music and a lot of music theory when I started taking piano lessons.

We don't have a standard level or grade system in the United States like you do in the UK. The most difficult piece I have ever played is probably Beethoven's Les Adieux sonata. That was about 5 years ago, and sadly I have forgotten the entire thing at this point. I haven't done much serious piano playing since then, because I started taking organ lessons and have been focusing on that. I do hope to get back to playing the piano more seriously sometime soon, though.

Really, I think the difficulty of being an adult beginner is overstated. You are just as capable of learning an instrument as any child. Probably more so, since you have better concentration and a longer attention span. The difficulty for adults is that they have so many more responsibilities and worries, so it can be difficult to find the time and concentrate. But if you have the time and the desire, you can still definitely learn to play.

[AeolianHarp]

I have been playing the piano since I was old enough to sit on the bench and reach the keys, but I did not take any formal lessons until I was 14 (I am 33 now). I had been taking violin lessons for years at that point, though, so I knew how to read music and a lot of music theory when I started taking piano lessons.

That's neat! Wish I'd had the opportunity at such a young age!

We don't have a standard level or grade system in the United States like you do in the UK. The most difficult piece I have ever played is probably Beethoven's Les Adieux sonata.

Oh I love Les Adieux!

That was about 5 years ago, and sadly I have forgotten the entire thing at this point. I haven't done much serious piano playing since then, because I started taking organ lessons and have been focusing on that. I do hope to get back to playing the piano more seriously sometime soon, though.

Oh that would be nice Chris! Maybe you will start to remember it when you try it again...

What organ have you got?

My paternal Grandad had one in his front sitting room. When he passed on my Dad wouldn't let me and my brothers have it. I was very miffed.

But at least my Privia Piano has an organ sound! So I can try a simplified Bach works using that!

Really, I think the difficulty of being an adult beginner is overstated. You are just as capable of learning an instrument as any child. Probably more so, since you have better concentration and a longer attention span.

I dunno.. I've got very fumbly fingers and I have discalculia which makes it hard for me to read sheet music and keep my eyes on it for long. I sometimes play the cleffs the wrong way round when I'm tired...
I have to write the letters of the notes above them on the sheet music as there are very few notes I can remember. I have tried all that FACE stuff but it never sticks in my head.

The difficulty for adults is that they have so many more responsibilities and worries, so it can be difficult to find the time and concentrate.

That is the truth of it. I am on some government work scheme ( 30 hours a week) and when I get in at 6pm, by 10pm I am often fagged out and struggle to have the energy and concentration to do a good practise. I am off til the 6th of this month, so trying to get more practise in.

But if you have the time and the desire, you can still definitely learn to play.

Yes, I have learned a bit since I got Old Cecil a few years ago, but slow progress than if I'd had the time, no worries, the teacher etc. In other words a lotto winner with a life of ease- I'd be practising and playing a lot more!

[Chris]

What organ have you got?

I don't have an organ. I practice on an organ in a church.

I have to write the letters of the notes above them on the sheet music as there are very few notes I can remember. I have tried all that FACE stuff but it never sticks in my head.

Try not writing the notes in. It will be difficult at first, as you have to figure everything out over and over again, but eventually you will do it enough that you will remember. You know where the notes are on your piano without having to label the keys, don't you?

[AeolianHarp]

I don't have an organ. I practice on an organ in a church.

Is it one of those big majestic ones?

Try not writing the notes in. It will be difficult at first, as you have to figure everything out over and over again, but eventually you will do it enough that you will remember.

Well it's funny regarding that- British and American music teachers say not to do that, but European ones do! I have messaged with European pianists who say that is the way they learnt them.

I tend to write in the ones I can't remember, and some I didn't know I am starting to remember, so it seems to work for me.


I just played straight for nearly an hour! That's the longest for a while.

I revisited some old stuff I hadn't practised in ages then tried a bit of Greensleeves (right hand) - which was kind of strange as I hadn't written the letters of the notes in and was running it off, but I think some of it was by ear. I wasn't even thinking of the notes.

You know where the notes are on your piano without having to label the keys, don't you?

Oh sure! I learnt the keys in a week when I first got Old Cecil in 2010!

[Chris]

Is it one of those big majestic ones?

Unfortunately, there are no real pipes on the one I usually play. But it is an extremely nice console, a Rodgers. I'm sure it cost over $100,000, and it is wonderful to play.

[/QUOTE]Oh sure! I learnt the keys in a week when I first got Old Cecil in 2010![/QUOTE]

Then I'm sure you could learn the notes on the staff almost as quickly! I think writing them in is perfectly fine when you are just starting out, but I bet you would get the hang of doing without that much faster than you think.