Linguistic doubt.

[Enrique]

Could it be there is no adjective in English corresponding to the noun London? What word would you use that could be interchangeable with "of or pertaining to London"? But I think an example is here mandatory. I can say "This wonderful orchestra of London". Now, try to say the same thing but without using "of London". That is, how do you fill the blank in

"This wonderful ______ orchestra"?

[PDG]

Hi Enrique.

London is not a noun, but rather a proper noun. Proper nouns have no adjective versions. When we refer to a Liverpudlian (for example), it is erroneous to suppose that it means inclusively 'of Liverpool'. In this case, 'Liverpudlian' is merely colloquial slang, and in any event, may only refer to the human residents of that city.

'This wonderful London orchestra'.

[Enrique]

Hi PDG.

Glad to see you in the forum. I see. Liverpudlian has the form of an adjective but is still a noun. So that is why I found it so hard to find an adjective! But tell me: what would you think of Britain and British? And Beethovenian?

[Peter]

Hi PDG.

Glad to see you in the forum. I see. Liverpudlian has the form of an adjective but is still a noun. So that is why I found it so hard to find an adjective! But tell me: what would you think of Britain and British? And Beethovenian?

I've never come across Beethovenian - I think you mean 'Beethovian' which is descriptive and therefore an adjective. Britain is a proper noun but British I suppose can be either adjective or noun depending on context - The British (noun) - they are British (adjective) - I might be wrong!!

[Enrique]

I've never come across Beethovenian - I think you mean 'Beethovian' which is descriptive and therefore an adjective. Britain is a proper noun but British I suppose can be either adjective or noun depending on context - The British (noun) - they are British (adjective) - I might be wrong!!

Thanks for the feedback, Peter. Beethovenian seems to belong to the English lexicon according to Wiktionary. but this is no Oxford English Dictionary. Anyways I always get confused with that word, writing Beethovenian instead of Beethovian.

Well then, both Beethovian and British, as adjectives that they can be, have served me to find the exception that proves the rule. And this thread, to learn something new about the beautiful English language. In my own one, and surely enough in Italian and French, proper names do admit terminations that make them into adjectives, always taking into account that Parisian, e.g., is not an adjective at all, as I learn from PDG. In Spanish, where the name of the city is París, parisino can be two quite different things. An adjective, and a noun describing people born or living in Paris. These nouns receive the name of "gentilicios".

ADDENDUM: And yet, something still bothers me in the following construction: "As a second question, what are, in your opinion, the three leading London symphony orchestras?" Do you think it is congruent with the genius of the English language? Put another way: would a Londoner musical critic produce himself in that way (grammatically speaking)? If not, how would you guys rewrite it, provided you get the meaning?

[PDG]

Hi PDG.

Glad to see you in the forum. I see. Liverpudlian has the form of an adjective but is still a noun. So that is why I found it so hard to find an adjective! But tell me: what would you think of Britain and British? And Beethovenian?

There is a term meaning "of London," which is 'Londonese', similar to Vienna's 'Viennese'. However, I have always understood such adjectives to be correct only when referring to the citizens of such places. In other words, an orchestra consisting only of London citizens may be called Londonese, but an orchestra merely using the London name, or consisting of any non-Londoners, may not! The former example could be called 'a wonderful Londonese orchestra'; the latter may be called only 'a wonderful London orchestra'.

As far as I know, terms such as Beethovenian and Mozartian have not yet been officially accepted as bona fide adjectives, so should be treated with caution - even though we all know what they mean!