The top ten most overrated geniuses (not about music).

[Chris]

Yes and Kylie, Abba or any other group you care to mention, but these are amateur transcriptions, not a faithful reproduction of the original.

There are some very professional, exact transcriptions of popular music out there. I have a book with all of the Beatles songs in complete score, in fact. Of course, it would be nice if the artists wrote down the music themselves so there would be no question as to the details...

If I wanted to listen to Abba (who I actually like!) I would only want a recording of Abba, no one else impersonating them.

Yes, in terms of listening, I agree. Although I do get a great deal of enjoyment out of just sitting down playing some Beatles (or whoever) songs myself, just for myself, or with friends. Much like the domestic music-making of the past, I imagine.

I'm the same with classical - I don't for instance like Beethoven's violin concerto arranged for clarinet (which I have) or his symphonies arranged for organ which I also have - ghastly!

I agree with this as well, in general, but I do think there are exceptions. What do you think of the Liszt piano transcriptions of the Beethoven symphonies? I must say, I do really love them. On the other hand, I'm not very interested in a lot of other famous transcriptions, such as Stokowski's Bach transcriptions.

[Peter]

There are some very professional, exact transcriptions of popular music out there. I have a book with all of the Beatles songs in complete score, in fact. Of course, it would be nice if the artists wrote down the music themselves so there would be no question as to the details...

Yes but you're not going to sound like them (a blessing in my view ) no matter how well they're played.

Yes, in terms of listening, I agree. Although I do get a great deal of enjoyment out of just sitting down playing some Beatles (or whoever) songs myself, just for myself, or with friends. Much like the domestic music-making of the past, I imagine.

Fair enough, as do many with classical of course as well.

I agree with this as well, in general, but I do think there are exceptions. What do you think of the Liszt piano transcriptions of the Beethoven symphonies? I must say, I do really love them. On the other hand, I'm not very interested in a lot of other famous transcriptions, such as Stokowski's Bach transcriptions.

The Liszt transcriptions were of course exceptionally well done by a great artist - I have heard some pretty grim simplified versions though.

[Peter]

It occurs to me that mainly through my own fault we've strayed way off what Enrique originally intended so let me throw in my own overrated 'genius' - Napoleon. Military campaigns have nothing to do with genius in the first place as they are destructive, not constructive, yet we frequently hear about the genius of warfare. It has everything to do with ego, vanity, cunning and greed - all negative traits.

[Sorrano]

It occurs to me that mainly through my own fault we've strayed way off what Enrique originally intended so let me throw in my own overrated 'genius' - Napoleon. Military campaigns have nothing to do with genius in the first place as they are destructive, not constructive, yet we frequently hear about the genius of warfare. It has everything to do with ego, vanity, cunning and greed - all negative traits.

And with whatever genius he might have accomplished in victories was thrown out with his own misguided judgment. Essentially, he nullified himself on that account.

[Quijote]

It occurs to me that mainly through my own fault we've strayed way off what Enrique originally intended so let me throw in my own overrated 'genius' - Napoleon. Military campaigns have nothing to do with genius in the first place as they are destructive, not constructive, yet we frequently hear about the genius of warfare. It has everything to do with ego, vanity, cunning and greed - all negative traits.

Interesting point. We do talk about military strategic geniuses (Napoleon, Rommel, Montgomery, Alexander, Genghis Khan, even Hitler ... for a while) but does the epithet really fit? What about 'chess geniuses' such as Kasparov, Fischer and so on? Or is it rather that these fellows were 'virtuosos' in their respective fields? I'm just asking, I haven't the foggiest idea.

[PDG]

If I wanted to listen to Abba (who I actually like!) I would only want a recording of Abba, no one else impersonating them.

AH HA-AA!! That scuppers Philip's and my planned 'turn' at the BRS Christmas party. We'd ordered blonde and brunette wigs and everything. We've been rehearsing (Phil's soprano needs a bit of tweaking but he looks great in spangly glitter boots and hot pants), but excellent though we are, it is true that we are not the original. Although close your eyes and it's like actually 'being there'...

[Peter]

Interesting point. We do talk about military strategic geniuses (Napoleon, Rommel, Montgomery, Alexander, Genghis Khan, even Hitler ... for a while) but does the epithet really fit? What about 'chess geniuses' such as Kasparov, Fischer and so on? Or is it rather that these fellows were 'virtuosos' in their respective fields? I'm just asking, I haven't the foggiest idea.

I think that an essential ingredient of genius is creativity which rules the chess players out - they are obviously highly intelligent, but let's face it, chess is just a brilliant game. I think the real genius there would be the person who invented it, but of course it evolved over time and no one person can be credited.

I think your way of describing them as virtuosos in their respective fields is very good.

[Peter]

AH HA-AA!! That scuppers Philip's and my planned 'turn' at the BRS Christmas party. We'd ordered blonde and brunette wigs and everything. We've been rehearsing (Phil's soprano needs a bit of tweaking but he looks great in spangly glitter boots and hot pants), but excellent though we are, it is true that we are not the original. Although close your eyes and it's like actually 'being there'...

Oh I think I might make an exception for that!

[Chris]

I think that an essential ingredient of genius is creativity which rules the chess players out - they are obviously highly intelligent, but let's face it, chess is just a brilliant game. I think the real genius there would be the person who invented it, but of course it evolved over time and no one person can be credited.

I think your way of describing them as virtuosos in their respective fields is very good.

So you think there is no such thing as tactical or strategic creativity?

[Peter]

So you think there is no such thing as tactical or strategic creativity?

Well what does a game of chess create?

[Enrique]

Opera is in any case a phenomena all of its own - people were often more interested in the celebrity status of singers than the composer. I don't think you would find much popularity for Mozart's chamber music amongst the ordinary folk of Prague!

If I may be given allowance to take this out of its context, I would like to state I agree a hundred per cent. Although the same, in a lesser degree could be said about famous pianists or violinists or orchestras. To stay in the street in the cold, waiting for hours and hours until the box office opens ... Insanity.

[Enrique]

Military campaigns have nothing to do with genius in the first place as they are destructive, not constructive, ...

I have to disagree here. A counterexample: If we French are what we are, for good or for bad, we owe it to Caesar's sword. These are the words of a French historian.

[Chris]

Well what does a game of chess create?

I don't think that is the relevant question. The object of the creativity in this case is the strategy itself, which can be both useful and beautiful.

[PDG]

Playing chess without a creative plan will inevitably doom you to defeat.

[Peter]

I don't think that is the relevant question. The object of the creativity in this case is the strategy itself, which can be both useful and beautiful.

Chess is of course a highly intellectual activity as is solving the BRS classical teaser or a cryptic crossword puzzle. The chess player is in some respects like the performer who is and cannot be on the highest level of the creator, no matter how brilliant the performance. There have been extraordinary talents who have interpreted Beethoven or Mozart, but NONE are equal to the genius that created the music in the first place. Haydn recognised this when he said after the death of Mozart that such a genius wouldn't be seen for a hundred years - well he wasn't literally correct, but he meant that such phenomena was incredibly rare - rarer than the world recognises today.