humanity, for a large part, has gotten "tight" and pretty crazy

[Preston]

This is just a thought, though one that is true, to my mind, as of now. Countries that are not tribal, or 1st world countries, are tight - in a general sense. Recently, I imagined the mystics of ancient times (and probably many now) living in caves - spending time with family, philosophizing, talking of theological matters, contemplating some of the most questions ever (that the human-species has asked), etc. I imagined they would sit their burning cannibus and incense, etc. going into deep meditative states-of-being, for very, long periods of time. ETC. \

Then recently my cousin told me that many tribal communities spend only a couple hours a day gathering necessities for the day - and that's it! They spend the rest of the with the above mentioned.

Now, it seems to me, 1st world countries have turned their (our) backs on mystic thoughts, feelings, etc. - for gossip and greed. We never stop working for the "boss". We are deforesting the world's purest form of life - the natural world - we never stop consuming - work, work, etc. etc. etc. A lot of things we are f'ng up to a degree that is past beyond human thought?

Just a really serious thought, well at least to my mind, that I wanted to share.

Any thoughts?

[Peter]

It's very easy to romanticise the past - even if we take the golden age of ancient Greece in the 5th century BC where the arts and philosophy flourished, there were terrible wars and famines that led ultimately to the destruction of Athens. Take another golden age, the Renaissance and you find the same thing - the human mind expressing the highest intellectual achievements through art and architecture whilst at the same time engaging in brutal persecutions, intolerance and wars. So is our age any worse? Only posterity can tell, but I think you have to adopt a philosophy of living your life the right way for you and not worrying so much what everyone else is up to - it is easy to find fault and every age has its problems.

[Megan]

I do agree with Peter, We can say that we have advanced medically and that live expectancy and infant mortality are now at levels undreamt of, even comparatively recently, say in the 18th century. Of course there is always the darker side which is the tampering with natures deepest secrets, as in nuclear technology, and non of us really knows for instance what the long term effects are going to be of the Fukishima disaster.
I personally find it rather worrying , looking at the economic side of things how everything seems to be made in China , under what looks like suspiciously sweat shop or labour camp conditions.
That said, there is a great deal to be thankful for in the west.

[Megan]

Preston,

A poem you might like to read , (if you haven't already) is T.S. Eliot , The Waste Land, which has a good claim to be the finest poem of the 20th century.
Eliot was an American who became a naturalized British subject and converted to the Anglican faith.
The poem is about the emptiness of modern life, which is a common enough theme nowadays, but was very rare when T.S. Eliot wrote it nearly 100 years ago. At that time people like H.G.Wells and G.B Shaw, were raving all about how wonderful science was and how there was going to be a bright new world of progress and freedom and prosperity.
Eliot say through all of this with a laser like poetic eye and exposed mercilessly in his poem, The Waste Land naive optimism.
Eliot was of course absolotely right because 2 world wars followed , and all the horrors of Stalinism and the Third Reich.
The poem is beautifully written in the most wonderful and very succinct English. There are wonderful and unforgettable phrases in it. I can't remember now whether he was given the Nobel prize for that poem alone, but he was certainly a candidate for it.
You never forget that poem when you have read it, and it is so great a poem that phrases from it have now entered the English language and it has become part of our heritage.
In the poem , Eliot refers to other cultures and he seems to be saying that we need to assimilate the experience of what other cultures , such as particularly China and India can teach us, and to get away from the terrible nihilism of western culture. Eliot in a sense was entitled to deal with these issues given that he was multi lingual and had a deep knowledge of many different different disciplines, including philosopy, anthropology and science.
Anyway read and judge for yourself .

http://www.bartleby.com/201/1.html



.

[Peter]

I think if I had to pick one thing to be grateful for now it has to anaesthetics!

[Megan]

I think if I had to pick one thing to be grateful for now it has to anaesthetics!

I can't remember in full detail but I remember reading some of the gruelling medical treatments that poor old Beethoven had to put up with. Must look it up again.

Johann Seibert.
Professor and principal surgeon at the General Hospital of Vienna, he performed the abdominal punctures on Beethoven at his home in the last months of his life.

[Preston]

There has been some serious confusion, to my mind. What I was attempting to say was about tribal environments and modern environments. Such as, yes the 1st world countries or what not have many, many, etc. great things, but at the same time many work endlessly, have no real peace and comfort, etc. Then, if there was a way to have new medicine, technology, etc., yet not DAMN (which is what a lot of the 1st world does) the mystics, tribal environments, etc. for living completely opposite (using all kind of mystical roots, herbs, etc. etc.)??? Anyway, I don't know, but, we need more of a type of tribal living, in some sense, etc. in "1st world". And stop this never-ending plague of on-the-go, running around, never ending work, etc. etc. etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A lot of people almost live, unknowingly and unconsciously, in a somekind of happy torment, imo.

As for romanticizing about the ancient times, that would be very stereotypical, seeing. as Peter said. as they did have numerous amounts of problems also. An interesting thought though, is destroying the earth worth modernism - which would have been nearly impossible, for the earth to be destroyed - from deforestation, pollution, etc. - in ancient times. But yes, people suffered then as they do now.

There is a good video from the movie The Wall called Empty Spaces - where he questions all of these things in a most angry way...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rAgeVvDJHM[/YOUTUBE]

What shall we do to fill the empty spaces
Where waves of hunger roar?
Shall we set out across the sea of faces
In search of more and more applause?
Shall we buy a new guitar?
Shall we drive a more powerful car?
Shall we work straight through the night?
Shall we get into fights?
Leave the lights on?
Drop bombs?
Do tours of the east?
contract diseases?
Bury bones?
Break up homes? Send flowers by phone?
Take to drink?
Go to shrinks?
Give up meat?
Rarely sleep? Keep people as pets?
Train dogs?
Race rats?
Fill the attic with cash?
Bury treasure?
Store up leisure?
But never relax at all...
With our backs to the wall!!!

Anyway, sorry for the confusion - hope that clears it up some. Don't know if it will?

[Peter]

There has been some serious confusion, to my mind. What I was attempting to say was about tribal environments and modern environments. Such as, yes the 1st world countries or what not have many, many, etc. great things, but at the same time many work endlessly, have no real peace and comfort, etc. Then, if there was a way to have new medicine, technology, etc., yet not DAMN (which is what a lot of the 1st world does) the mystics, tribal environments, etc. for living completely opposite (using all kind of mystical roots, herbs, etc. etc.)??? Anyway, I don't know, but, we need more of a type of tribal living, in some sense, etc. in "1st world". And stop this never-ending plague of on-the-go, running around, never ending work, etc. etc. etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A lot of people almost live, unknowingly and unconsciously, in a somekind of happy torment, imo.

As for romanticizing about the ancient times, that would be very stereotypical, seeing. as Peter said. as they did have numerous amounts of problems also. An interesting thought though, is destroying the earth worth modernism - which would have been nearly impossible, for the earth to be destroyed - from deforestation, pollution, etc. - in ancient times. But yes, people suffered then as they do now.

There is a good video from the movie The Wall called Empty Spaces - where he questions all of these things in a most angry way...





Anyway, sorry for the confusion - hope that clears it up some. Don't know if it will?

I think there is a real misconception about work today - honestly no one in the western world works anything like they did a hundred years ago let alone in the Middle ages. Really it's quite pathetic to hear people going on about their 'busy lives' today - they have leisure time that previous generations could never have even dreamt of - this is perhaps the problem!

I agree many have no peace or comfort and that is because they have the wrong balance in their lives - they are dominated by materialism and are never satisfied - as soon as they have what they crave, it loses its appeal and they want something else in an endless cycle of desire that can bring no true happiness.

I think it was Seneca who said there are only two issues in life; those you can do something about and those that you can't - it is futile to waste energy over these. So I come back to my last post Preston and say that you have to lead your own life and not worry so much about how others lead theirs because you can do little about that but you can grow and find peace focusing on a right way for yourself.

[Preston]

I think there is a real misconception about work today - honestly no one in the western world works anything like they did a hundred years ago let alone in the Middle ages. Really it's quite pathetic to hear people going on about their 'busy lives' today - they have leisure time that previous generations could never have even dreamt of - this is perhaps the problem!

Perhaps, though I highly doubt it.

I agree many have no peace or comfort and that is because they have the wrong balance in their lives...

Or because they are in prison (perhaps wrongfully accused), or because they are missing limbs for trying to help someone else, or because they were paralyzed or mentally handicapped, etc.

I think it was Seneca who said there are only two issues in life; those you can do something about and those that you can't - it is futile to waste energy over these.

Seneca might be wrong? I think so.
Also, look at those unimaginable issues Beethoven never conquered but survived, if you will, through. So each person's issues are different.

[Peter]

Perhaps, though I highly doubt it.

Or because they are in prison (perhaps wrongfully accused), or because they are missing limbs for trying to help someone else, or because they were paralyzed or mentally handicapped, etc.

Seneca might be wrong? I think so.
Also, look at those unimaginable issues Beethoven never conquered but survived, if you will, through. So each person's issues are different.

To the first point I was being a little facetious, but it is still a big part of the problem. To the second point, of course there are many factors but I thought you were referring generally to societies outlook on life? Even to some of the factors you refer to, there are people who have dealt with prison, paralysis, illness etc better than others because of a better mental/spiritual outlook.
To the 3rd point, no I think Seneca was right - what is the use in beating yourself up because the tide has gone out?