A Breath of fresh air

[Sorrano]

It's rather funny how we use technology to bring people closer together, but the end result is that you have two people standing next to each other with the mobile phones, texting each other.

[Quijote]

All too often those envisioning utopias are inclined to subject the rest of humanity to those ideals, usually by force.

Fully agree. I don't wish to get "too political" here, but these lunatic-fringe fundamentalist Islamists (Bin-Laden and his ilk) believe in a return to some sort of 6th-century Islamic "Utopia" that is simply anathema to the vast, common sense muslim majority, and such extreme vision has little to do with the true spirit of the Koran, as far as my (too few) muslim acquainances tell me. Utopia? No thanks.
Still, to lighten the tone, my own "musical Utopia" would be : enforced Cage throughout the day, and no respite. Hah!

[Quijote]

No, a quick modification : enforced Cage and Wagner throughout the day, and no respite.

[RobertH]

Fully agree. I don't wish to get "too political" here, but these lunatic-fringe fundamentalist Islamists (Bin-Laden and his ilk) believe in a return to some sort of 6th-century Islamic "Utopia" that is simply anathema to the vast, common sense muslim majority, and such extreme vision has little to do with the true spirit of the Koran, as far as my (too few) muslim acquainances tell me. Utopia? No thanks.
Still, to lighten the tone, my own "musical Utopia" would be : enforced Cage throughout the day, and no respite. Hah!

Knowing next to nothing about Islam, I have to say I am very wary of anyone who does not know Arabic [that's presumably most of us] saying that there is a moderate muslim and an extreme muslim. How on earth would anyone know who does not have the necessary knowledge.
Yes, my definition of dystopia would be forced to listen to Stockhausen all day and Cher.

[Quijote]

Knowing next to nothing about Islam, I have to say I am very wary of anyone who does not know Arabic [that's presumably most of us] saying that there is a moderate muslim and an extreme muslim. How on earth would anyone know who does not have the necessary knowledge.
Yes, my definition of dystopia would be forced to listen to Stockhausen all day and Cher.

Well, the Koran has been translated, as has the Bible (as I don't read Greek or other ancient language [Aramaic? Hebrew?]). Ergo, not speaking any ancient language (apart from Latin, and I hardly speak that!), I think I know the difference between a mad-dog Christian or Judaic fundamentalist and the more palatable moderate version. No?
Stockhausen and Cher? Ouch!

[Sorrano]

No, a quick modification : enforced Cage and Wagner throughout the day, and no respite.

I could handle that. However, some here may actually prefer one of his shorter works (if performed a tempo it should be just under four and a half minutes. <grin>

[Quijote]

I could handle that. However, some here may actually prefer one of his shorter works (if performed a tempo it should be just under four and a half minutes. <grin>

The Ring cycle in under 4.5 minutes? Wow, have you been fiddling with your "fast forward" button on your Hi-Fi system or what?

[Preston]

Well, reading the above makes me think the spirit of Marx and Engels is alive and kicking (not that they were ever really applied as intended). As to Utopias, that is also a dangerous road, because rather like one man's meat being another's poison, one's Utopia will be hell for another.

Marx and Engels were communists. They were sadly pushing for somekind of utopia. When you refer to the above it is not about Marx and Engels communism, quite the opposite.

Just didn't want to cause any confusion, .

[Sorrano]

The Ring cycle in under 4.5 minutes? Wow, have you been fiddling with your "fast forward" button on your Hi-Fi system or what?

Now, that I would really like to hear!

[Chris]

Well, the Koran has been translated, as has the Bible (as I don't read Greek or other ancient language [Aramaic? Hebrew?]). Ergo, not speaking any ancient language (apart from Latin, and I hardly speak that!), I think I know the difference between a mad-dog Christian or Judaic fundamentalist and the more palatable moderate version. No?
Stockhausen and Cher? Ouch!

There are some unbelievably bad translations of the Bible into English out there, some due to incompetence, some due to an agenda. I have no doubt the same could be true of the Koran. I take RobertH point that knowledge of the original language is essential to read the book yourself and really understand it. And more than that. Knowledge of the writing styles, culture, and history of the period would be essential as well. Quite complicated. That's why I studied math. 5 is 5 in any language or age. Although we did seem to have some problems with 0...

[Quijote]

OK Chris, so are you saying we should read the Old and New Testament in the original language(s), that this would be essential? So the muslims in Indonesia (or Pakistan) who can't read classical Arabic (becasue they speak, respectively, Indonesian or one of its many dialects/languages, or Urdu/Punjabi) have a somewhat "diminished" access to their Holy Book?

[Quijote]

Without wishing to be flippant, this strikes me as a "Mel Gibson" standpoint.

[Agnes Selby]

Marx and Engels were communists. They were sadly pushing for somekind of utopia. When you refer to the above it is not about Marx and Engels communism, quite the opposite.

Just didn't want to cause any confusion, .

What is it then, Preston, that you are advocating? Division of wealth
also means less revenue to the state. Who would then pay for the roads
and crumbling bridges if there was not one taxable person left. Dismantled
corporation would have no means to emply people nor the incentive
to do so. Are you advocating that incentive to work and to amass wealth
is a sin? Some people are more capable than others. The same applies
to school children, some are more capable at learning to read than others.
People cannot be grouped under a single roof. What we should celebrate
is diversity.

Yes, I agree, some salaries are beyond comprehension. However, so
is the idleness of some people who feel it is their right to feed off others
who are willing to work.

Perhaps the perfect utopia is allowing people to be themselves and not try and change them. Because a forced change only brings others to power
who had envied those whose wealth they had literally stolen.

And as for the deserted island situation...how utterly boring!

[Quijote]

What is it then, Preston, that you are advocating? Division of wealth also means less revenue to the state. Who would then pay for the roads and crumbling bridges if there was not one taxable person left. Dismantled corporation would have no means to emply people nor the incentive to do so. Are you advocating that incentive to work and to amass wealth is a sin? Some people are more capable than others. The same applies to school children, some are more capable at learning to read than others. People cannot be grouped under a single roof. What we should celebrate is diversity.

Yes, I agree, some salaries are beyond comprehension. However, so is the idleness of some people who feel it is their right to feed off others who are willing to work.
Perhaps the perfect utopia is allowing people to be themselves and not try and change them. Because a forced change only brings others to power who had envied those whose wealth they had literally stolen. And as for the deserted island situation...how utterly boring!

Agnès, whilst I accept that Preston's postings are at times muddled, the division of wealth per se does not necessarily imply loss of tax revenue.
As to the rest of your posting, I more or less agree, with one exception - I quote you :

Yes, I agree, some salaries are beyond comprehension. However, so
is the idleness of some people who feel it is their right to feed off others
who are willing to work.

I can't help feeling in that comment that you are implying there is a sizeable minority of idle parasites out there in society at large. I am very probably a naive optimist, but I have the sneaking suspicion that the vast majority of unemployed people living off state benefits would much rather be in some sort of "meaningful" employment. I truly believe that being unemployed is hell.

[Agnes Selby]

Agnès, whilst I accept that Preston's postings are at times muddled, the division of wealth per se does not necessarily imply loss of tax revenue.
As to the rest of your posting, I more or less agree, with one exception - I quote you :

Yes, I agree, some salaries are beyond comprehension. However, so
is the idleness of some people who feel it is their right to feed off others
who are willing to work.

I can't help feeling in that comment that you are implying there is a sizeable minority of idle parasites out there in society at large. I am very probably a naive optimist, but I have the sneaking suspicion that the vast majority of unemployed people living off state benefits would much rather be in some sort of "meaningful" employment. I truly believe that being unemployed is hell.

Yes, to some it is hell to some it is paradise. Sorry, I have lived
through Socialism/Communism in Czechoslovakia and remember how well that worked!