What are you reading now?

[Preston]

Congratulations, and was the play a success?

[Peter]

Thank you for sharing that, Peter. Interesting how she went from, the "frivolous social climbing world" (like the way you word that), to a peasant, and then back to the "frivolous social climbing world". Such a change in life style that it would definitely, "awaken" (like the way you word that, too), someone, which would seem to me to be a good thing for the life.

Yes I think she learnt a lot during her life and this has to be our main goal and reason for being - tolerance and understanding through wisdom. Unfortunately many don't learn which is why the world is still in such a mess and I was reminded of this earlier in the week when a former miner was recalling the miner's strike in the UK during the early 80s and he was asked if he would talk to those who had refused to strike - his reply 'no, once a scab, always a scab' - it shows a smallness of mind that is so typical and perpetuates the hatreds that fuel wars.

[Michael]

Congratulations, and was the play a success?

Thanks, Preston. Audience attendance could have been better, but it went down well and we enjoyed ourselves.
Now reading the Sunday Times - not for reviews, I hasten to add!

[Quijote]

That sounds interesting Philip and perhaps we could discuss some of those issues in the main forum? Don't eat too much gateau!

The essays are very interesting. Discuss some of the points on the main forum? Perhaps.
No gateau this time, but plenty of fresh venison, trout and (ahem) schnitzel. And schnapps, of course.

[Preston]

Yes I think she learnt a lot during her life and this has to be our main goal and reason for being - tolerance and understanding through wisdom. Unfortunately many don't learn which is why the world is still in such a mess and I was reminded of this earlier in the week when a former miner was recalling the miner's strike in the UK during the early 80s and he was asked if he would talk to those who had refused to strike - his reply 'no, once a scab, always a scab' - it shows a smallness of mind that is so typical and perpetuates the hatreds that fuel wars.

The ignorant minds of today's frivolous social climbing world, are definitely a problem, as are the many other other ignorant minds. You are right it is a typical thing. I find that true and real goodness is such a key thing to learn in life, and perhaps the point in life is to find a better human nature. When I say goodness, there are so many people that consider themselves good, when they are not, this to me is one of the key problems. They call themselves good, but are filled with sin and temptation. Do they not see their own stubbornness! Apparently not.

Talking about the frivolous social climbing world, I tell you, in America, there are so many celebrities, clicks, hype, etc. I mean almost all that I see on TV is utter crap. Do not get me wrong though there is much goodness in America, it is just that a lot of people get caught up in all this hype. As someone told me recently, America was founded on genocide and slavery (which I find to be somewhat/pretty true).

Don't get me wrong again though, even though there is much and I mean much hype in America, there is so much and I mean so much, poverty. Some people think that America is a place where dreams happen, I tell you, maybe for some, but for the majority it is minimum wage!

In men whom men condemn as ill
I find so much of goodness still,
In men whom men pronounce divine
I find so much of sin and blot,
I do not dare to draw a line
Between the two, where God has not
-Joaquin Miller

[Peter]

The ignorant minds of today's frivolous social climbing world, are definitely a problem, as are the many other other ignorant minds. You are right it is a typical thing. I find that true and real goodness is such a key thing to learn in life, and perhaps the point in life is to find a better human nature. When I say goodness, there are so many people that consider themselves good, when they are not, this to me is one of the key problems. They call themselves good, but are filled with sin and temptation. Do they not see their own stubbornness! Apparently not.

Talking about the frivolous social climbing world, I tell you, in America, there are so many celebrities, clicks, hype, etc. I mean almost all that I see on TV is utter crap. Do not get me wrong though there is much goodness in America, it is just that a lot of people get caught up in all this hype. As someone told me recently, America was founded on genocide and slavery (which I find to be somewhat/pretty true).

Don't get me wrong again though, even though there is much and I mean much hype in America, there is so much and I mean so much, poverty. Some people think that America is a place where dreams happen, I tell you, maybe for some, but for the majority it is minimum wage!

In men whom men condemn as ill
I find so much of goodness still,
In men whom men pronounce divine
I find so much of sin and blot,
I do not dare to draw a line
Between the two, where God has not
-Joaquin Miller

I think you are right that we live with a celebrity driven culture which I believe to be extremely damaging as it provides completely false materialistic values. It is a problem common to most of the world I am afraid, not just America. As to America's past 'sins' well yes you can say that slavery was part of what built the nation (as it was in many European countries). However it is a one-sided way of looking at it - there is a very positive side to the history of America and Europe and we must build on these things rather than dwell on the bad things from the past which should of course be discussed and learnt from, but in the right context and with a sense of proportion. There is much to be thankful for from America and other cultures around the world.

[Joy]

[QUOTE=Preston;42033]

Talking about the frivolous social climbing world, I tell you, in America, there are so many celebrities, clicks, hype, etc. I mean almost all that I see on TV is utter crap. Do not get me wrong though there is much goodness in America, it is just that a lot of people get caught up in all this hype. As someone told me recently, America was founded on genocide and slavery (which I find to be somewhat/pretty true).

Don't get me wrong again though, even though there is much and I mean much hype in America, there is so much and I mean so much, poverty. Some people think that America is a place where dreams happen, I tell you, maybe for some, but for the majority it is minimum wage!

Wow! So young and yet so skeptical! America's not all about celebrities, genocide and slavery, my friend. As for TV you have a choice what to watch. How about watching the Discovery channel or History. If you don't have cable there's always PBS. Not all is crap.
America stands for a commitment to service. Our nation has never been a melting pot. It is a mosaic. And each of us is part of the glue holding that mosaic together. Neighbor helping neighbor, serving their community. What holds the American mosaic together are the values we share. Patriotism, which is loving the United States. Opportunity, which serves the United States. And the extended family, which is the United States.
Minimum wage isn't so bad ether, it's a living! Dreams do happen for a lot of people here. So many immigrants come to this country and really appreciate it all.

[Preston]

Wow! So young and yet so skeptical! America's not all about celebrities, genocide and slavery, my friend. As for TV you have a choice what to watch. How about watching the Discovery channel or History. If you don't have cable there's always PBS. Not all is crap.
America stands for a commitment to service. Our nation has never been a melting pot. It is a mosaic. And each of us is part of the glue holding that mosaic together. Neighbor helping neighbor, serving their community. What holds the American mosaic together are the values we share. Patriotism, which is loving the United States. Opportunity, which serves the United States. And the extended family, which is the United States.
Minimum wage isn't so bad ether, it's a living! Dreams do happen for a lot of people here. So many immigrants come to this country and really appreciate it all.

In my post I did say that there was much goodness, in America. I do mean that.

I do not think that all of America is wrong, but Joy your approach is to optimistic, I think, I know that you do not though.

Do you know that in my first post I almost put, except for the History and National Geographic Channel. That is only 2 channels out of around 64.

Your point about minimum wage, is not thought out well. It is a living, but is that enough? To scrape by without all the pleasantries that people with money have. Perhaps you do not know what real poverty is like?

As far as genocide and slavery, I know that America has learned from some of its mistakes. I don't want you to think that is all that I think about America.

Patriotism, which is loving the United States.

It is this "patriotism" which fuels wars. People thinking that America is so right, that we are the best, etc.

I figured that there would be many of you devout Americans, that would rail against my post.

Yes many people do come to America, to get away from some of the horrors of their countries. Does that make America great, though? No, it does not. It may be a better country, in ways, but there is so much wrong in America.

Do not think that I hate America, or anything of the sort, it is just that there is so much wrong with America.

I think that it is apparent that we have two completely different views of America.

[Peter]

In my post I did say that there was much goodness, in America. I do mean that.

I do not think that all of America is wrong, but Joy your approach is to optimistic, I think, I know that you do not though.

Do you know that in my first post I almost put, except for the History and National Geographic Channel. That is only 2 channels out of around 64.

Your point about minimum wage, is not thought out well. It is a living, but is that enough? To scrape by without all the pleasantries that people with money have. Perhaps you do not know what real poverty is like?

As far as genocide and slavery, I know that America has learned from some of its mistakes. I don't want you to think that is all that I think about America.

It is this "patriotism" which fuels wars. People thinking that America is so right, that we are the best, etc.

I figured that there would be many of you devout Americans, that would rail against my post.

Yes many people do come to America, to get away from some of the horrors of their countries. Does that make America great, though? No, it does not. It may be a better country, in ways, but there is so much wrong in America.

Do not think that I hate America, or anything of the sort, it is just that there is so much wrong with America.

I think that it is apparent that we have two completely different views of America.

I understand your sentiments and frustrations Preston, but nowhere is perfect and I think you can find a great many places on this earth where people are much much worse off. For one thing you are allowed to voice your opinions where in many countries that would end you up in prison or worse. I am not American but British and I can tell you there is also much wrong over here in Europe and a great deal that needs to change. Our television is also pretty dreadful on the whole with even the BBC pushing out endless repeats!

Had it not been for America don't forget that Hitler would not have been defeated and we over here are very mindful of that fact.

[Preston]

I understand your sentiments and frustrations Preston, but nowhere is perfect and I think you can find a great many places on this earth where people are much much worse off. For one thing you are allowed to voice your opinions where in many countries that would end you up in prison or worse. I am not American but British and I can tell you there is also much wrong over here in Europe and a great deal that needs to change. Our television is also pretty dreadful on the whole with even the BBC pushing out endless repeats!

Had it not been for America don't forget that Hitler would not have been defeated and we over here are very mindful of that fact.

You are definitely right, no place is perfect. I do agree that there are places that are much worse off, which is why some people come to America. Again, I do feel that there is much good in America, I can't emphasize this enough, but as you said no place is perfect.

I was talking about my views of America, and I knew that people may disagree. Again, I am not saying that America is all wrong, by any means, just that there are some serious problems with America. I was not saying that America is the worst or something similar to that, which I have tried to say. In other words, I was not trying to come off that America is all wrong, I was just pointing out some of the problems with America.

Yes, America did help stop the armies of Hitler, a good deed, but they also ignited Vietnam. So my point is that there is good, as I have said, but also so much wrong and ignorance, which is what we were talking about.

[Peter]

You are definitely right, no place is perfect. I do agree that there are places that are much worse off, which is why some people come to America. Again, I do feel that there is much good in America, I can't emphasize this enough, but as you said no place is perfect.

I was talking about my views of America, and I knew that people may disagree. Again, I am not saying that America is all wrong, by any means, just that there are some serious problems with America. I was not saying that America is the worst or something similar to that, which I have tried to say. In other words, I was not trying to come off that America is all wrong, I was just pointing out some of the problems with America.

Yes, America did help stop the armies of Hitler, a good deed, but they also ignited Vietnam. So my point is that there is good, as I have said, but also so much wrong and ignorance, which is what we were talking about.

Well yes Preston there is much that both our countries are doing wrong in my opinion, BUT so is the rest of the world! Fortunately we can openly discuss it.

[Peter]

I've just started reading Haydn's Visits to England by Christopher Hogwood. Although he didn't come until 1791 there were requests for him to visit as early as 1782. In one amusing article in the Gazetteer & Daily News of 1785 there was a suggestion to kidnap him and bring him to London! "Would it not be an achievement equal to pilgrimage, for some aspiring youths to rescue him from his fortune and transplant him to Great Britain?"

Also reading a biography about Manuel de Falla

[PDG]

Had it not been for America don't forget that Hitler would not have been defeated and we over here are very mindful of that fact.

I thought that Churchill won the war...

[Quijote]

[...] Also reading a biography about Manuel de Falla

Ah, that's a composer I like (being half Spanish myself). I visited his birthplace in Cadiz a couple of years ago. At the time there was a football match on at the bar terrace next door (imagine the noise), so I couldn't pay suitable homage. Really, I like his music, even though this may surprise you. I am also interested in his connection with Frederico Garcia Lorca (Spanish poet murdered by the Francoist Guardia Civil), and the true Flamenco 'cante jondo' movement.

[Quijote]

Had it not been for America don't forget that Hitler would not have been defeated and we over here are very mindful of that fact.

I agree with these postings so far. But let us not forget the Soviet contribution to the defeat of Wagner, I'm sorry, I mean Hitler.

Seriously, there is absolutely no doubt about the USA's involvement in defeating the Nazis, but the Soviet contribution tends to get downplayed. That said, the Soviets would not have carried it off alone, if my reading of the history is correct.