Moonlight sonata

[jman]

I concur with op. 49, especially no.2, to be quite easy!! I even like no.2 better.

As for moonlight...beautiful first movement but frankly no one else seems to play it like I like to...I don't like hearing it slow. But neither can it be too fast...I dunno, I interpret many pieces (especially Romantic as it leaves the most room for interpretation) much different than many people like--or can accept, even. ANyways, I can't think much more to say about hte composition other than it is one of hte most beautiful pieces I've read, a stunning potrayl of the effect all this harmony or whatever. THe notes sound so cool either way and it's always fun to play, ALWAYS!!!

On a side note--I recently bought the sheet music for the sonatas, actually I got an edition which breaks it into two volumes and I only got volume 2, the store is shipping volume 1 as they didn't have it. 1) I'm amazed at how well the book stays open, much more than 300 pages and it's easy to play, I'm not too sure why I that works as other 100 and some page books don't stay open without a fight for months!. 2) BEETHOVEN WROTE SOME TOUGH MUSIC; I mean, I think I'm pretty good but MY GOD, looking at most of the rest of the sonatas that I haven't played before I'm just bewildered. But I love it anyways, and someday (maybe after I'm through university...maybe) I'll be able to play them all. 3) Since I don't have volume one yet, how is the 3rd movement of op. 27 no. 2 in terms of difficulty?? I'm going to bet the second movement is easier but I've only glanced at the music for the 2nd and 3rd movements at one time. I'd love to be able to learn the whole sonata but I have heard the 3rd movement and it is awesome--I'd definitely love to learn it--but it just sounds tough.

[Peter]

Originally posted by jman:
Since I don't have volume one yet, how is the 3rd movement of op. 27 no. 2 in terms of difficulty?? I'm going to bet the second movement is easier but I've only glanced at the music for the 2nd and 3rd movements at one time. I'd love to be able to learn the whole sonata but I have heard the 3rd movement and it is awesome--I'd definitely love to learn it--but it just sounds tough.

Yes the third movement of the Moonlight is tough and you'll need to work on your arpeggios and rotary technique! With the glorious second movement it is important to get the accentuation right - you should think of it as actually being in 6/4 time with the first beat coming at bar 2. In the trio he turns it round and has the main stress on the first bar. Liszt described the opening phrase of this movement as 'opening of a flower followed by leaves drooping'!

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'Man know thyself'

[Leigh M]

Originally posted by jman:
3) Since I don't have volume one yet, how is the 3rd movement of op. 27 no. 2 in terms of difficulty?? I'm going to bet the second movement is easier but I've only glanced at the music for the 2nd and 3rd movements at one time. I'd love to be able to learn the whole sonata but I have heard the 3rd movement and it is awesome--I'd definitely love to learn it--but it just sounds tough.

IMO The last movement of the moonlight is one of the most difficult beethoven wrote. It would probably be the most difficult of the sonatas pre op 31, (alongside the last movement of op 2 no 3, that one's a killer).
It seems to be one enormous technical challenge after another- The relentles arpeggios, the octave trills, I find the dotted figures over the semi quavers at the presto speed to be really hard also. I think to be able to play this sonata from start to finish is certainly a commendable achievement, the glorious sound being produced by one's playing would be a fitting reward.

[Marta]

Originally posted by Leigh M:
IMO The last movement of the moonlight is one of the most difficult beethoven wrote. It would probably be the most difficult of the sonatas pre op 31, (alongside the last movement of op 2 no 3, that one's a killer).
It seems to be one enormous technical challenge after another- The relentles arpeggios, the octave trills, I find the dotted figures over the semi quavers at the presto speed to be really hard also. I think to be able to play this sonata from start to finish is certainly a commendable achievement, the glorious sound being produced by one's playing would be a fitting reward.

Hi Leigh.

My opinion is that all Beethoven's music IS difficult. For me his music is not beginner o intermediate material. It requires maturity and technical command of the instrument. His music has hidden dificulties, not so apparently in the score, but evident when is played.
Now, of course among his piano sonatas we find different degrees of difficulty between them, as an increase in complexity in each period of Beethoven's music.
The Sonata Op.27 No.2 (Moonlight) is a very difficult sonata, YES, all the movements, even the first one, which erroneously is thoght to be easy, is not, is has those hidden difficulties. Now the third movement of course is difficult, but I won't say that is one of the most difficult Beethoven wrote.
Previous the Op.31, I find overall the Sonata Op.22 to be more complex and demanding musically and technically, and the Op.2 No.3 I call this sonata the mini-concerto without orchestra, it requires a well round technique and command of the instrument.
But again, all Beethoven's music requires this to some degree.


Marta

[spaceray]

[QUOTE] Peter,would you advise me -as a piano teacher- with the easiest B piano soata to play ,or the most easiest movement..(All that I've learned till now is the 1'st movement of moonlight!)

Yes Peter,I want free advice too, what music do you ask your students to buy at the begining ,what exercise books do you think are the best. I have little pieces for piano by Marko Tajcevic the"Leider von der Mur -Insel" do you know this composer?

[Peter]

[quote]Originally posted by spaceray:

Peter,would you advise me -as a piano teacher- with the easiest B piano soata to play ,or the most easiest movement..(All that I've learned till now is the 1'st movement of moonlight!)

Yes Peter,I want free advice too, what music do you ask your students to buy at the begining ,what exercise books do you think are the best. I have little pieces for piano by Marko Tajcevic the"Leider von der Mur -Insel" do you know this composer?

Generally as I have said Urtext are to be preferred, but this is not always possible especially because of the expense. The Associated Board do a good edition of the Beethoven sonatas in 3 vols or they can be bought individually. re. exercise books I presume you mean studies and this all depends on your level. I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with Marko Tajcevic so can't comment on that one!

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'Man know thyself'

[orpheus]

[quote]Originally posted by spaceray:

Peter,would you advise me -as a piano teacher- with the easiest B piano soata to play ,or the most easiest movement..(All that I've learned till now is the 1'st movement of moonlight!)

Yes Peter,I want free advice too, what music do you ask your students to buy at the begining ,what exercise books do you think are the best. I have little pieces for piano by Marko Tajcevic the"Leider von der Mur -Insel" do you know this composer?

If I may offer advice, I found the Hannon "Virtuoso Pianist" did wonders for my technique back in the days when I was interested in performing. I also used to practise some Schmidt 5 finger studies, as well as all the scales, arpeggios etc. Perhaps these books are out of date now, but particularly the Hannon completely changed the way I played. Its only draw back is that you must put a couple of hours a day into just the excercises and they are very boring to play.

[spaceray]

Thanks orpheus for the suggestion I will get a copy of Hannon I have seen it many times at the 2nd hand music shop.I do not mind practicing I'm allready sitting there for three or four hours a day,I have a routine of exercises my teacher has given me ,I practice scales like mad I can play C,D,E,G,B,A,and F major as well as E and A,minor with my hands together,I play all the chords and inversions up and down the key board to burn them in my memory.My hands and fingers are so small that when I stretch them out to play broken tenths a sharp shooting pain travels through my wrist.
I have had to do hand strengthing exercises as apparently for fifty years these little muscles were like wet noodles.
My husband tells me that the latest expletive heard about the house is "damned semitones!"

[Peter]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Thanks orpheus for the suggestion I will get a copy of Hannon I have seen it many times at the 2nd hand music shop.I do not mind practicing I'm allready sitting there for three or four hours a day,I have a routine of exercises my teacher has given me ,I practice scales like mad I can play C,D,E,G,B,A,and F major as well as E and A,minor with my hands together,I play all the chords and inversions up and down the key board to burn them in my memory.My hands and fingers are so small that when I stretch them out to play broken tenths a sharp shooting pain travels through my wrist.
I have had to do hand strengthing exercises as apparently for fifty years these little muscles were like wet noodles.
My husband tells me that the latest expletive heard about the house is "damned semitones!"

I may be wrong here but I get the impression you have not been learning for very long, only if I'm right 3 or 4 hours practise a day does seem a great deal - many concert artists get by on less! The point I'm making is that the quality is far more important than the quantity. I would also suggest avoiding broken 10ths if they are giving you pain. You should never continue with something that is hurting.

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'Man know thyself'

[spaceray]

These days I have a lot of time on my hands and the four or so hours that I devote to music every day also include theory which is writing out exercises and a vocal warm up then piano.And I often break it up with a walk or lunch or a cup of tea. Don't worry practising broken tenths is not something that my teacher has yet asked of me ,I was doing it because a song I wished to master(but was too difficult for me)was loaded with them .My teacher often tells me not to try to jump ahead but I can't resist experimenting .

[Peter]

Originally posted by spaceray:
These days I have a lot of time on my hands and the four or so hours that I devote to music every day also include theory which is writing out exercises and a vocal warm up then piano.And I often break it up with a walk or lunch or a cup of tea. Don't worry practising broken tenths is not something that my teacher has yet asked of me ,I was doing it because a song I wished to master(but was too difficult for me)was loaded with them .My teacher often tells me not to try to jump ahead but I can't resist experimenting .

Far be it from me to discourage people from spending too long at the piano - it makes a nice change from having to get pupils to do any practice at all and I think your devotion to music is admirable! re. 10ths, some composers had naturally large hands and could play them as easily as octaves with no consideration for us smaller handed mortals!

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'Man know thyself'

[spaceray]

I think I would rather sit at the piano struggling with note and symbol reading(they only have to write a few notes on ledger lines and I am panicing )than be out buying Italian shoes and having lunch with my girlfriends.I am positively besotted with music,but I have said before I do know what I am up against and only hope that I may become proficiant enough to play the hymns at the old folks home,and by then I shall probably be one of thoses folks.

[Leigh M]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Thanks orpheus for the suggestion I will get a copy of Hannon I have seen it many times at the 2nd hand music shop.I do not mind practicing I'm allready sitting there for three or four hours a day,I have a routine of exercises my teacher has given me ,I practice scales like mad I can play C,D,E,G,B,A,and F major as well as E and A,minor with my hands together,I play all the chords and inversions up and down the key board to burn them in my memory.My hands and fingers are so small that when I stretch them out to play broken tenths a sharp shooting pain travels through my wrist.
I have had to do hand strengthing exercises as apparently for fifty years these little muscles were like wet noodles.
My husband tells me that the latest expletive heard about the house is "damned semitones!"

Keep up the practice!
I think it is important to get a good handle of scales and arpeggios early in your learning. But remember to concentrate on a musical sound rather than speed. Try to learn a new scale every week until you know them all. You will find that proficiency with scales and arps will aid your playing.

As for Hanon for about a year I used the first twenty excercises to warm up every practice. I don't do that anymore. I still go back to Hanon every once in a while, I found it really helped strengthen my weaker fingers, but there are certainly more interesting ways to do this. I like Czerny's op 821 8 bar etudes. There are 160 of them, and they each cover a different aspect of technique, and they are quite musical! They're pretty difficult (I can only play a handful) but they are a managable size to learn.
Also don't ever underestimate the importance of Bach. I try to warm up with Bach every practice now as opposed to something like hanon. You will find the part playing and clarity required will really aid your technique, and at the same time help cultivate your ability to play with a singing tone. The children's Bach is a must if you are starting out.

And one more thing, if you haven't read Schumann's 'musical rules at home and in life' get your hands on it. There are much practical advice for the aspiring musician.

'Take care and play easier pieces well and beautifully: that is better than a mediocre performance of a difficult piece'

and my favourite:

'always play as though a great master were listening'

[spaceray]

Better give me another year or so before any great master comes to hear me play!