Brahms' Op.98

[chopithoven]

Do you think that the form of the second movement, andante moderato, of Brahms' 4th symphony in e minor is sonata form, ABA, sonata without development or what?

Thanks

[Peter]

No idea - never thought about it, but isn't it simply wonderful? Such a glorious melody and the most sumptuous string writing -somehow I can't imagine Brahms strolling back from the Red Hedgehog thinking this is ABA! You know, not till a few decades after the classical era did anyone come up with a definition of sonata form - and surprisingly few Mozart, Haydn or Beethoven works fit the textbook 'ideal'!

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'Man know thyself'

[chopithoven]

Originally posted by Peter:
No idea - never thought about it, but isn't it simply wonderful? Such a glorious melody and the most sumptuous string writing -somehow I can't imagine Brahms strolling back from the Red Hedgehog thinking this is ABA! You know, not till a few decades after the classical era did anyone come up with a definition of sonata form - and surprisingly few Mozart, Haydn or Beethoven works fit the textbook 'ideal'!

Yes, of course it is wonderful. But I cannot avoid feeling that terrible doubt about the form. Not caring for the form would be assuming that 'this movement might be a fantasy' and clearly it is not. And besides, wasn't that definition of sonata form you mention already made when Op.98 was composed (1884-85)?

[Peter]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
Yes, of course it is wonderful. But I cannot avoid feeling that terrible doubt about the form. Not caring for the form would be assuming that 'this movement might be a fantasy' and clearly it is not. And besides, wasn't that definition of sonata form you mention already made when Op.98 was composed (1884-85)?

Of course I don't mean to imply that form is unimportant - only that I haven't analysed the movement in question, and it hasn't prevented my appreciation of it.

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'Man know thyself'

[chopithoven]

Two things:
1-I'm almost totally sure that this movement is in sonatina form. Does anyone know?

2-Would you say that this wonderful movement is at the musical height of the two finest slow movements of B's symphonies, the adagio of the ninth and the marcia funebre of the Eroica?

[Chaszz]

Thank you, Chopithoven, for reminding me about this wonderful movement which I've not listened to in quite awhile. I just had a listen at the naxos.com website. Too moved to think much about the form, maybe on a repeat listening.

[chopithoven]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Thank you, Chopithoven, for reminding me about this wonderful movement which I've not listened to in quite awhile. I just had a listen at the naxos.com website. Too moved to think much about the form, maybe on a repeat listening.

It was a pleasure to remind you.