Originally posted by Kreutzer:
B, then A. Haydn: B, then A. Bach, Brahms, Verdi, Liszt: B, then A. Mozart: B (because he died too young). The pattern is: B: in their young age, freedom, energy and a clash between overflowing emotions and ideas on one hand, and an expert grasp, but not complete mastery of form on the other hand. Phase A: In their advancing years, realization that experimentation is not as satisfying as a perfect mastery of form to contain a distillation of their most intimate musical ideas. Think of Haydn's "Sturm und Drang 39-63 symphonies, and his later, "perfect" 92-104. Or Brahm's Piano concertos 1 (B) and 2 (A). Of course the language may remain romantic, but the quest for perfection has overtaken the urge to communicate.
As has been mentioned above, Beethoven returned to classicism in his late years. The need to give the most perfect realization of musical thoughts explains that artistic journey.
[This message has been edited by Kreutzer (edited April 23, 2003).]
[This message has been edited by Kreutzer (edited April 23, 2003).]
B, then A. Haydn: B, then A. Bach, Brahms, Verdi, Liszt: B, then A. Mozart: B (because he died too young). The pattern is: B: in their young age, freedom, energy and a clash between overflowing emotions and ideas on one hand, and an expert grasp, but not complete mastery of form on the other hand. Phase A: In their advancing years, realization that experimentation is not as satisfying as a perfect mastery of form to contain a distillation of their most intimate musical ideas. Think of Haydn's "Sturm und Drang 39-63 symphonies, and his later, "perfect" 92-104. Or Brahm's Piano concertos 1 (B) and 2 (A). Of course the language may remain romantic, but the quest for perfection has overtaken the urge to communicate.
As has been mentioned above, Beethoven returned to classicism in his late years. The need to give the most perfect realization of musical thoughts explains that artistic journey.
[This message has been edited by Kreutzer (edited April 23, 2003).]
[This message has been edited by Kreutzer (edited April 23, 2003).]
The only one that I would disagree with is Mozart, who by your system would be A then B. His early works (I would classify as up to K 271 PC #9) were strongly influenced by his father's dictum to not write anythig he couldn't sell (or to be more exact, that wouldn't appeal to the lowest common denominator, thus to insure maximum popularity). He was frequently harshly rebuked by Leopold for being "too Learned" (here Learned is in the sense of what we now call "classical", which word did not exist in that sense at the time), and it was not intil he moved to Vienna and went out on his own that his ture creativity came out and he became the Mozart we know today, which is what was thought of then as Romantic, or in our terms "avant-garde". Amazing how quickly this style became the norm from which the next crop of avant-garde composers sought to rebel!! That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
Regards,
Gurn
[This message has been edited by Gurn Blanston (edited April 30, 2003).]
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