Beethoven's Broadwood

[Gurn Blanston]

Just received a CD of Andras Schiff playing various bagatelles and short pieces on B's own Broadwood piano(forte) (HCD 11885). It is very interesting to hear, and perhaps does some justice to the concept of period instruments. The liner notes give a short history of the instrument (even though it was a gift, B couldn't afford the customs duty on it, so he got a special waiver from the Emperor!) and I noted that when it was observed by others a few years later, the strings were all broken in the upper registers. Perhaps this explains Rosen's remark that the finale movement of one of his late works, if played as written, would be a good explanation of the stories he heard of B's pianos having broken strings! In any case, this is quite a nice CD, in the event that anyone has run across it and wondered.
Regards, Gurn

[lysander]

Gurn,

Thankyou for your interesting information about your recent purchase on Beethoven's bagatteles, by Andres Schiff.
I certainly shall place it on order from my local classical music store.

I also very much love Beethoven's brilliant Diabelli-Variations, by Alfred Brendel.
Although I have got used to and like Brendel's interpretation, I would appreciate your opinion and other recommendations.

[orpheus]

A few years back I went to a concert in Helsinki - I can't remember the pianist's name, (I am terrible with names) - in which the pianist played on two pianos (well replicas) that Beethoven used: a fortepiano and the Broadwood. He takes these things all over the place, goodness knows how anyone can afford his fees! Anyway, on the fortepiano he played earlier pieces and bagatelles, and in the 2nd half did the last three sonatas on the Broadwood. I had heard the fortepiano in concert before (having heard Melvyn Tan)but not the Broadwood and so was quite excited about it at the time. I expected it to be fantastic, and it was very interesting, but I must say I came away wanting to hear those last three sonatas again on a modern concert grand.

[Rod]

Originally posted by orpheus:
A few years back I went to a concert in Helsinki - I can't remember the pianist's name, (I am terrible with names) - in which the pianist played on two pianos (well replicas) that Beethoven used: a fortepiano and the Broadwood. He takes these things all over the place, goodness knows how anyone can afford his fees! Anyway, on the fortepiano he played earlier pieces and bagatelles, and in the 2nd half did the last three sonatas on the Broadwood. I had heard the fortepiano in concert before (having heard Melvyn Tan)but not the Broadwood and so was quite excited about it at the time. I expected it to be fantastic, and it was very interesting, but I must say I came away wanting to hear those last three sonatas again on a modern concert grand.

If the Broadwood you heard was from Beethoven's time you would call that a fortepiano too. My own preference, and indeed it seems most fortepianists, is for the Viennese instruments, as played by Tan, over the English ones from this time.



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[orpheus]

Originally posted by Rod:
If the Broadwood you heard was from Beethoven's time you would call that a fortepiano too. My own preference, and indeed it seems most fortepianists, is for the Viennese instruments, as played by Tan, over the English ones from this time.

Well the Broadwood I heard had an iron frame, so I don't think you call that a fortepiano - which has a wooden frame. But the broadwood used - the iron frame one - was from B's time, and was the instrument op.106 onwards were written for. You can't play op.106, op.109-111 on a fortepiano as there just aren't enough notes on it!

[Rod]

Originally posted by orpheus:
Well the Broadwood I heard had an iron frame, so I don't think you call that a fortepiano - which has a wooden frame. But the broadwood used - the iron frame one - was from B's time, and was the instrument op.106 onwards were written for. You can't play op.106, op.109-111 on a fortepiano as there just aren't enough notes on it!

I must correct you here, there were enough notes on the Viennese pianos at this time to play all the late piano pieces, otherwise Beethoven would not have written for a piano needing 6.5 octaves. His Graf piano was certainly so equipped. However Beethoven's 6 octave Broadwood did not have the compass for these works, not even op101 I think. In this respect it quickly became obsolete. In Tan's recording using the Beethoven Broadwood he plays the late sets of Bagatelles and he needed to re-tune at least one of the high keys that were not used to play the highest notes on the score.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited April 15, 2003).]

[orpheus]

Originally posted by Rod:
I must correct you here, there were enough notes on the Viennese pianos at this time to play all the late piano pieces, otherwise Beethoven would not have written for a piano needing 6.5 octaves. His Graf piano was certainly so equipped. However Beethoven's 6 octave Broadwood did not have the compass for these works, not even op101 I think. In this respect it quickly became obsolete. In Tan's recording using the Beethoven Broadwood he plays the late sets of Bagatelles and he needed to re-tune at least one of the high keys that were not used to play the highest notes on the score.

Hmm, I trust your knowledge here then. But I am confused as I had understood that B was presented with the boradwood by the company and it was this that inspired the later piano sonorities - particularly in op. 106 "hammerlavier". I can't imagine this piece working on a wooden frame, although that would explain his reputation for breaking strings perhaps.

Does that mean the "authentic" performance I heard was on the wrong piano then?

[This message has been edited by orpheus (edited April 15, 2003).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by orpheus:
Hmm, I trust your knowledge here then. But I am confused as I had understood that B was presented with the boradwood by the company and it was this that inspired the later piano sonorities - particularly in op. 106 "hammerlavier". I can't imagine this piece working on a wooden frame, although that would explain his reputation for breaking strings perhaps.

Does that mean the "authentic" performance I heard was on the wrong piano then?

[This message has been edited by orpheus (edited April 15, 2003).]

Beethoven had commenced work on op106 before he received his Broadwood. I have recordings of all the late sonatas performed very successfully on an original 1824 Graf. The performance on an iron framed Broadwood could be construed as less 'authentic' than this Graf. But then we can also consider the earlier pianos Beethoven was familiar with such as the 5 octave Walter. This could be construed as technically more 'authentic' for the early sonatas than the Graf, but the key factor is the Viennese action in both cases.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited April 15, 2003).]

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by orpheus:
Does that mean the "authentic" performance I heard was on the wrong piano then?

[This message has been edited by orpheus (edited April 15, 2003).]

I am not sure of the answer to that, but the liner notes from my Schiff CD say that the piano was donated to the Hungarian Museum by Liszt (in his will), and has been there ever since. No mention was made of "road shows" one way or the other, so I suppose that they can't be discounted...
Regards, Gurn