Beethoven's withdrawal

[Chaszz]

I know that Liszt popularized the solo piano recital, or at least was the first to sit sideways to the audience. Were there solo piano recitals at public concerts before that?

If such had existed in his day, could or would Beethoven have continued to play in public following the onset of deafness?

Why didn't he continue giving private recitals and improvisations? Why was it necessary for him to wihdraw completely from his parallel career as a performing pianist?
Would he have gotten the dynamics all wrong?
Was the decision psychological in nature?

[Peter]

As far as I am aware the only Beethoven sonata performed at a public concert in his lifetime was Op.101. The public concert went hand in hand with the growth of the middle classes in the 19th century - up till then it was very much the domain of the church and aristocracy. In Beethoven's time this growth was already taking place, hence the huge demand for arrangements that people could play in their own homes and the increase in amateur musicians.

It would have been impossible for Beethoven to have continued a performing career - a pianist needs to be able to hear every sound they produce! Just playing a simple 3 note chord is an art, as the balance of sound must be right. It isn't simply a question of playing the right notes - though even here Beethoven vividly demonstrated his incapacity as this anecdote by Ludwig Reelstab poignantly reveals :-

Beethoven:"This is a beautiful piano! I got it as a gift from London. Look at the name!" He pointed with his finger to the strip of wood above the keyboard."It is a wonderful present, "said Beethoven looking at me " and it has a beautiful tone," he continued turning towards the piano without taking his eyes off me. He struck a chord softly. Never will another chord pierce me to the quick with such sadness and heartbreak. He has played C major in the right hand and B natural in the bass; he looked at me steadily and repeated the false chord several times to let the mild tone of the instrument sound, and the greatest musician on earth could not hear the dissonance!



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'Man know thyself'

[lysander]

Beethoven's deafness produced one unexpected bonus for posterity, in that it forced him to withdraw as an artist, leaving him free to channel all his creative energy into composition.

Solomon pointed out that Beethoven's deafness served to protect his creativity when he was about to embark upon his "new path", one that "would lead him to transform the parameters and procedures of the Viennese Classic tradition and to establish new boundaries and norms for the future of development of music".

Brahms friend, the famous surgeon Professor Theodor Billroth, pointed out; "The idea that deafness in general, has to paralyse creativity is completely illogical, even though it originated with Spohr....
Beethoven had no need to run to the piano after each measure, to hear how it sounded.

Billroth went on to argue that is was ridiculous to suggest that the many late works of unquestionable beauty should be regarded as freaks, or craziness.

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by lysander:

Beethoven's deafness produced one unexpected bonus for posterity, in that it forced him to withdraw as an artist, leaving him free to channel all his creative energy into composition.

Solomon pointed out that Beethoven's deafness served to protect his creativity when he was about to embark upon his "new path", one that "would lead him to transform the parameters and procedures of the Viennese Classic tradition and to establish new boundaries and norms for the future of development of music".

Brahms friend, the famous surgeon Professor Theodor Billroth, pointed out; "The idea that deafness in general, has to paralyse creativity is completely illogical, even though it originated with Spohr....
Beethoven had no need to run to the piano after each measure, to hear how it sounded.

Billroth went on to argue that is was ridiculous to suggest that the many late works of unquestionable beauty should be regarded as freaks, or craziness.

What you say is of course true. What I had in mind when I posted the original in this thread was his need and desire to play the piano frequently all thru the years of his deafness, as witness the several he destroyed by pounding on them, or so I've read. There was also the famous one that was lying on the floor. About this one I've read two stories, one saying he played heavily on it till the legs were weakened and it collapsed, and the other saying that he put it on the floor on purpose so he could put his ear down and feel the vibrations thru the floor as he played it. (????)

And I still think it would have been worth anything to hear him improvise, even deaf and making mistakes in pitches and dynamics, to hear the genius in the throes and ecstacies of actual at-the-moment creation. To rephrase the subject here, I wonder if his friends asked him to, or enjoyed, hearing him play at all, after he was deaf. Does anyone know?


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited April 07, 2003).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chaszz:

And I still think it would have been worth anything to hear him improvise, even deaf and making mistakes in pitches and dynamics, to hear the genius in the throes and ecstacies of actual at-the-moment creation. To rephrase the subject here, I wonder if his friends asked him to, or enjoyed, hearing him play at all, after he was deaf. Does anyone know?


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited April 07, 2003).][/B]

I don't know the answer to your question, Chaszz (I'm sure someone will know) but I have to agree with you that even with all his mistakes, playing off key or whatever it would have been something to have heard him improvise and play. You would think the people closest to him would want him to play regardless of the outcome. Of course, getting him to play was an entirely different matter. He wasn't coaxed into playing that often.

Joy

[Stargazer]

He wasn't coaxed into playing that often.
[/B]

Resulting in probable loss of technique, making any improvisation of his possibly useless, deaf or eitherwise...

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
There was also the famous one that was lying on the floor. About this one I've read two stories, one saying he played heavily on it till the legs were weakened and it collapsed, and the other saying that he put it on the floor on purpose so he could put his ear down and feel the vibrations thru the floor as he played it. (????)

And I still think it would have been worth anything to hear him improvise, even deaf and making mistakes in pitches and dynamics, to hear the genius in the throes and ecstacies of actual at-the-moment creation. To rephrase the subject here, I wonder if his friends asked him to, or enjoyed, hearing him play at all, after he was deaf. Does anyone know?

Sir George Smart recalls in a diary entry of 11th september 1825 that Beethoven improvised upon a theme for 20 minutes in 'a most extraordinary manner, sometimes very fortissimo but full of genius'. John Russell recalled after hearing Beethoven play in the 1820s that when playing soft, the notes often wouldn't sound. It is interesting that Beethoven was still improvising rather than performing his own works - Referring to when Beethoven's hearing was less impaired, Czerny remarked on this when he said that Beethoven's improvisations were extraordinary but the playing of his own works much less successful as he wouldn't take the time to practise them!

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'Man know thyself'

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Peter:
Sir George Smart recalls in a diary entry of 11th september 1825 that Beethoven improvised upon a theme for 20 minutes in 'a most extraordinary manner, sometimes very fortissimo but full of genius'. John Russell recalled after hearing Beethoven play in the 1820s that when playing soft, the notes often wouldn't sound. It is interesting that Beethoven was still improvising rather than performing his own works - Referring to when Beethoven's hearing was less impaired, Czerny remarked on this when he said that Beethoven's improvisations were extraordinary but the playing of his own works much less successful as he wouldn't take the time to practise them!

Yes, I would think for a composer of genius whose soul was wedded to the piano, the urge to improvise would still be there even after deafness and Beethoven did continue playing the piano all his life, as we know. Thanks for these quotes, Peter, which throw some light on this.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:


Referring to when Beethoven's hearing was less impaired, Czerny remarked on this when he said that Beethoven's improvisations were extraordinary but the playing of his own works much less successful as he wouldn't take the time to practise them!

I know even composers have to practice their own works but I've always thought this funny to think that the people who wrote their own music have to also practice their own music!

Joy