WoO 47

[lysander]

Beethoven's First three sonatas, composed at 11 or 12 years old, and dedicated to Elector Maximilian Friedrich, 1783.
Is there a reason why they have been severed from their 32 successors?
were they complete and have we a recording of them?

[Rod]

Originally posted by lysander:

Beethoven's First three sonatas, composed at 11 or 12 years old, and dedicated to Elector Maximilian Friedrich, 1783.
Is there a reason why they have been severed from their 32 successors?
were they complete and have we a recording of them?

Considering I never refer to the sonatas by their sequence number with the '32' (I can never remember them in any case!) this has never been an issue for me. The 32 all have opus numbers and it was the opus listed works that were (or at least the opus numbers sanctioned by Beethoven) regarded as having a higher status amongst his 'oeuvre', even by Beethoven himself. Of course the juvenile sonatas could be regarded as too far removed from the 32 to really be included in that list regardless.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[lysander]

Originally posted by Rod:
Considering I never refer to the sonatas by their sequence number with the '32' (I can never remember them in any case!) this has never been an issue for me. The 32 all have opus numbers and it was the opus listed works that were (or at least the opus numbers sanctioned by Beethoven) regarded as having a higher status amongst his 'oeuvre', even by Beethoven himself. Of

course the juvenile sonatas could be


regarded as too far removed from the 32 to really be included in that list regardless.


I appreciate your point Rod,
but these three early sonatas are never the less seem very fine pieces and show indications of the later symphonic masterpieces.
Really speaking, severing them from the standard repertoire and not providing with the recieved notation is I think, not entirely rational or logical and indeed deprives us of an opportunity of viewing his very early works, which are part of Beethoven's artisic progression.

[This message has been edited by lysander (edited April 03, 2003).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by lysander:

Beethoven's First three sonatas, composed at 11 or 12 years old, and dedicated to Elector Maximilian Friedrich, 1783.
Is there a reason why they have been severed from their 32 successors?
were they complete and have we a recording of them?

It is a good point - after all juvenelia by Mozart are included in the Kochel catalogue. We have featured WoO47 on the rare page and here are the comments that accompanied that clearly revealing the link with later works that we are perhaps denied as you say.

"In this early work the stormy Beethoven of later minor-key works such as the Pathetique, Op. 13, is already evident. In fact the two pieces have much in common, beginning with the unusual structure of their opening movements, each with a slow introduction featuring heavy chords, which returns during the development section. The similarities continue in the second movement. Notice how the opening motive c-b-flat-e-flat of Op. 13 lies just below the surface of the F minor sonata's (much more conventional) sequence c- a-flat-d-flat--b-flat-e-flat, each supported by the bass line a-flat-d-flat--c. These and other similarities suggest that Beethoven may have had the earlier work in mind whilst composing the later one."



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'Man know thyself'

[lysander]

Thankyou for your interesting reply Peter,
It did cross my mind about Mozart's earlier work being in the Kochel catalogue.
I am sorry I have missed the rare page when Beethoven's WoO 47 was featured, it must have been most interesting.

I think that Beethoven suffers unjustly in comparison with Mozart in respect of their childhood reputation. No one has achieved the prodigious success Mozart in his childhood years and that is rightly and properly acknowledged in the K. numbering of his works. But the very brilliance of Mozart in his childhood as both performer composer has tended to outshine
the lesser luminaries in their childhood years at least, such as Beethoven.
The fact is that Beethoven was a notable child performer and composed a number of significant works. Yes, he was perhaps not as prodigious and copious in his output at that time as Mozart but why isn't Beethoven given the recognition he truly deserves. We tend to poo, poo Beethoven's childhood works, but not everyone could be Mozart at that age and he did not have his father's priceless conections that his father Leopold had with the aristocracy.
So let's hear it for Beethoven the childhood composer and give his sonatas proper numbering.

It is interesting what you are saying about
Opus 13. I shall study it again more carefully.


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For he's a jolly good fellow!


[This message has been edited by lysander (edited April 03, 2003).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by lysander:

So let's hear it for Beethoven the childhood composer and give his sonatas proper numbering.

If anything I would say it is the numbering that should be scrapped, they are catalogued one way or another in any case. This would encourage people to remember the catalogue numbers. For example I can easily remember the opus numbers of the 32, because I cannot remember them by sequence number, but even now I have trouble remembering the much smaller amount of opus numbers of some of the symphonies and concertos because it is more convenient to use the sequence numbers for such small lists.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Gurn Blanston]

In any case, it is not anything against these sonatas that kept them from being numbered; all the numbered sonatas have Opus numbers, and these do not. WoO means (forgive me, I forget the German but it doesn't matter) "without opus number", and they are that because they were not published by a commercial publisher. They are in good company in any case, with 3 piano quartets, a complete piano trio, and many bagatelles of good quality (I will just mention Fur Elise since it came up before WoO 59), just to mention a few, so it is no slight. Oddly, 2 sonatas that would have been on the WoO list and are not much more mature are Nos. 19 & 20, which B never submitted for publication in any case, but his brother did, B was not pleased as they did not reflect his current capability. So they are included in the 32, perhaps unfairly.
As for numbering, it is a mass of confusion which I am currently trying to work out for myself. The most complete (but not perfect) system is Biamonti, which assigns numbers in approximate chronological order, as it was known at the time of publication. BTW, the Biamonti #'s of the WoO 47 sonatas are 002 so this more accurately reflects their place as B's second, third and fourth known compositons. Of course, right there it is easy to see where Biamonti missed the boat, as he should have called them 2,3 & 4. Oh well, I suppose I shall have to add to the confusion by doing it over again, but correctly this time. ;-)))
Regards, Gurn

[This message has been edited by Gurn Blanston (edited April 05, 2003).]