Rare Page - Sehnsucht WoO146

[Peter]

Now available to members at
www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/rare.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Now available to members at
www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/rare.html

An adequate performace here, nothing more. But the piece's '3rd period' leanings are clear I think, the subtle introspective element. This piece was requested about 2 or 3 months back (at least!) so sorry for the delay, whoever requested it! I have 4 other different tracks from Beethoven with the same title, so I hope I chose the right one!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited March 21, 2003).]

[Joy]

Beautiful. And Reissig's poem, very poignant and lovely words indeed.

Joy

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Beautiful. And Reissig's poem, very poignant and lovely words indeed.

Joy

Glad you can recognise, despite Fischer-Dieskau's singing, a quality piece! About the poem I was thinking much the same when I was typing it out for the page. This is definitiely one of the better poems Beethoven got his hands on.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited March 21, 2003).]

[Andrea]

Despite what Rod said about Fischer-Dieskau (who is one of my favorites), I quite liked this piece. It reminds me of Schubert especially with Fischer-Dieskau performing, a liebling Schubert singer here in Vienna.

[Chris]

Thanks, Rod, very nice.

[lysander]

Reissig's poem is very lovely and poignant.

The poem depicts in which the lover lies awake yearning for his asbsent beloved.

Poems about distant beloved were common and he had already set about a dozen.
In the "Sehnsucht" lieder, I think Beethoven wanted something depicting a 'distant beloved', or a love that was not reciprocated. This reminds me of his letter to the Immortal Beloved;-

"Though still in bed, my thoughts go out to you, my Immortal Beloved, now and then joyfully, then sadly, waiting to learn whether or not fate will hear us..."

He is so much loved today as then.


Please may I take a moment to enquire about the canon on Malzel, WoO162, Ta,ta,ta, I am a bit curious to hear this piece.
Apparently it was composed during a merry evening in the Black Camel.
I don't suppose it is a very long piece.
Dolezalek recalled how he had seen Beethoven drinking claret in the Schwarzen Kameel, or entertaining friends over wine or coffee.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Andrea:
Despite what Rod said about Fischer-Dieskau (who is one of my favorites), I quite liked this piece. It reminds me of Schubert especially with Fischer-Dieskau performing, a liebling Schubert singer here in Vienna.

Perhaps if someone else was singing, instead of only 'quite' liking this piece, you may instead have 'really' liked this piece Andrea. I think if you heard the complete 3cds from this volume, you would not be such a fan of F-D, though I accept he is more restrained than usual here.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited March 22, 2003).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by lysander:


Please may I take a moment to enquire about the canon on Malzel, WoO162, Ta,ta,ta, I am a bit curious to hear this piece.

Just noticed this paragraph. I've got a few recordings of these canons but not this one, sorry.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Michael]

Originally posted by lysander:


Please may I take a moment to enquire about the canon on Malzel, WoO162, Ta,ta,ta, I am a bit curious to hear this piece.
Apparently it was composed during a merry evening in the Black Camel.
I don't suppose it is a very long piece.
Dolezalek recalled how he had seen Beethoven drinking claret in the Schwarzen Kameel, or entertaining friends over wine or coffee.

It's disappointing to find out that the "ta,ta,ta" canon is not by Beethoven. Barry Cooper, in his recent book, describes it as "one of Schindler's more imaginative inventions". It has not been included in the DGG Complete Beethoven edition (although it wouldn't have killed them to put it in for curiosity value alone).

Michael

[This message has been edited by Michael (edited March 25, 2003).]

[lysander]

Originally posted by Michael:
It's disappointing to find out that the "ta,ta,ta" canon is not by Beethoven. Barry Cooper, in his recent book, describes it as "one of Schindler's more imaginative inventions". It has not been included in the DGG Complete Beethoven edition (although it wouldn't have killed them to put it in for curiousity value alone).

Michael

I know that Schindler unfortunately can be unreliable.
But I find it rather curious as to who composed this piece. Maelzel?

Johann Nepomuk Maelzel, Inventor of the metronome persuaded Beethoven to compose a "Battle-piece" to celebrate Wellington's Victory. Then perhaps it isn't unreasonable to think that he persuaded Beethoven to compose the WoO 162.

[This message has been edited by lysander (edited March 25, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by lysander (edited March 25, 2003).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Michael:
It's disappointing to find out that the "ta,ta,ta" canon is not by Beethoven. Barry Cooper, in his recent book, describes it as "one of Schindler's more imaginative inventions".

Michael

Yes I remember this now, I think we've discussed this before a while ago in relation to the scherzo of the 8th Symphony.



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by lysander:

I know that Schiller unfortunately can be unreliable.
But I find it rather curious as to who composed this piece. Maelzel?

I presume Cooper is suggesting that Schindler wrote the piece himself? In which case has it been that difficult to differentiate between a canon by Beethoven and a canon by Schindler if only relatively recent research discovered it to be a fraud!?

PS I have not heard the piece myself.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited March 25, 2003).]

[lysander]

Originally posted by Rod:
I presume Cooper is suggesting that Schindler wrote the piece himself? In which case has it been that difficult to differentiate between a canon by Beethoven and a canon by Schindler if only relatively recent research discovered it to be a fraud!?

PS I have not heard the piece myself.

Apologies for the above typo, I am sure you probably realized, I meant of course, Schindler, and not Schiller.

[This message has been edited by lysander (edited March 25, 2003).]

[Michael]

Originally posted by Rod:
I presume Cooper is suggesting that Schindler wrote the piece himself? In which case has it been that difficult to differentiate between a canon by Beethoven and a canon by Schindler if only relatively recent research discovered it to be a fraud!?

How many years did it take before the so-called "experts" realised that the "Jena" symphony was not by Beethoven, but by that great genius, F. W. Witt?

Michael