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    #16
    Originally posted by Chaszz:
    Not to make light of this in any way, but it is amazing to me how primitive the space shuttles are, compared to the science fiction vehicles we have been 'raised on', and the real ships that will no doubt follow some day. It goes into orbit not by its own power, but helplessly piggy-backed on enormous rockets that later fall away. Once there, repairs are impossible even had they been known to be needed. The tiles cannot be repaired in space. There are no handholds on the bottom of the ship for a spacewalk. They couldn't dock with the space station. They could have conceivably changed orbits to match with the space atation, but not gotten across because no tie lines exist and they might have 'floated' off into eternity. They would have had no choice but to chance a re-entry anyway.

    And, incomprehensible to me, the tiles survive 3000 degrees F. of heat, yet are weak enough to be broken with one's hand during installation if not handled correctly! A craft of this sophistication comes back to earth using weak and crumbly ceramic tiles on its belly for protection.

    I know the space program has worked wonders, but this level of primitivism after such huge expenditures in money and time, shows how incredibly difficult the whole thing really is.

    [This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited February 04, 2003).]
    You are so right about the tiles. It's a remarkable piece of machinery. Nothing beats the Saturn 5 though!! Now that was a firecracker. I saw that in person while at the Cape in Florida and it was huge! We saw it being transported to the launching pad. I miss those space days!

    Joy
    'Truth and beauty joined'

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      #17
      Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:

      it is amazing to me seeing all this that no one on the ground was killed!
      Regards, Gurn
      Quite amazing for sure.

      Joy
      'Truth and beauty joined'

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        #18
        Originally posted by Andrea:
        It's ashame that it takes a tragedy like what happened to Columbia and on 9-11 to bring Americans together. What is more of a tragedy is when NASA finally finds out that what caused Columbia to come apart could have been prevented, just like the Challenger explosion. I just hope that this too wasn't an accident waiting to happen.

        My thoughts and prayers go out to those lives lost and to their families. I hope that NASA can learn from this and make improvements for we still have Atlantis, Discovery and Endeavor to take care of. Maybe a "Next Generation" shuttle is in order.
        Between 1968 and 1977 the US spent 364 billion dollars on war ;27 billion on space and less than 2 billion on community development and housing.
        "Finis coronat opus "

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          #19
          Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
          All,
          In the event that you wondered where I've been (or not ;-)), just a note to let you know that pieces of the shuttle fell on my house and place of business, and I have been busy cleaning up. You can't imagine what it is like to be actually involved in such a major disaster, in no way is this something I ever hope to live through again. As a long-time space enthusiast, and also proud of my country's efforts to do something above and beyond to the benefit of everyone, I can only say that this is an intrinsic part of exploration, and the spirit that brings superior people forward to take the risks and sacrifice their own well-being for the greater good is not extinguished with these lives, it lives on and will continue to do so long after we have passed.
          Best Regards, Gurn
          Did you hear it before you saw anything?
          "Finis coronat opus "

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            #20
            Originally posted by Joy:
            If the war is over in a month I will really be surprised. Wars usually drag out forever!!

            Joy
            Off subject I know, but like with the Gulf war, desert warfare is a piece of cake for nations with hi-tech weapons. That war was over almost before it began! A blitzkrieg attack would have most of the nation occupied after two weeks ( I was reading war history books at the age of 5!). This only leaves the big cities to worry about, but I'd be most surprised if the Iraqi army resorted to house to house defence. If they do, things will get bloody. Of course if they use chemical weapons things might get 'interesting', but everyone tells me these guys don't have chemical weapons any more..do they...

            ------------------
            "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

            [This message has been edited by Rod (edited February 05, 2003).]
            http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

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              #21
              Rod's right - this whole thread though understandable is way off topic and completely breaks the forum rules!!! Yes the Shuttle was tragic, but we have to keep a sense of proportion and remember that man's striving for improvements in technology has always been accompanied by disasters, from building the pyramids, canals and railways to space flight. Rod also mentioned the impending Iraqi war - well to at last bring some sort of Beethoven connection into this thread, I think we need no better lesson in the futility of war than to look at the sorry episode that characterised Europe under Napoleon Bonaparte.

              ------------------
              'Man know thyself'
              'Man know thyself'

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                #22
                Originally posted by Peter:
                Rod's right - this whole thread though understandable is way off topic and completely breaks the forum rules!!! Yes the Shuttle was tragic, but we have to keep a sense of proportion and remember that man's striving for improvements in technology has always been accompanied by disasters, from building the pyramids, canals and railways to space flight. Rod also mentioned the impending Iraqi war - well to at last bring some sort of Beethoven connection into this thread, I think we need no better lesson in the futility of war than to look at the sorry episode that characterised Europe under Napoleon Bonaparte.

                Well, nobody developed the Beethoven story I mention above. It is clear that Beethoven regarded the life of a soldier is a life wasted for the price of small change - whether in wartime or not. I can only agree, but for me work of any kind is a crime! Europe was continually at war before and after Bonaparte, I suppose it gave the ruling classes something to do.



                ------------------
                "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
                http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Peter:
                  Rod's right - this whole thread though understandable is way off topic and completely breaks the forum rules!!! Yes the Shuttle was tragic, but we have to keep a sense of proportion and remember that man's striving for improvements in technology has always been accompanied by disasters, from building the pyramids, canals and railways.

                  That's what I've been saying all along. There's risks in many occupations. As for staying off topic, we've all been a bit naughty but I do think this deserved a little bit of conversation and respect to say the least. As for making a connection between this topic of the space shuttle and Beethoven all I can come up with is that Beethoven was very curious when it came to astronomy and space himself. He was very interested in it.
                  'Truth and beauty joined'

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Rod:
                    but everyone tells me these guys don't have chemical weapons any more..do they...

                    Who knows. All I know is I'm tired of this subject already about war. There always was war and they'll always be war that's all I know for sure. Beethoven wasn't a fan of it and neither am I!
                    'Truth and beauty joined'

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Joy:
                      Who knows. All I know is I'm tired of this subject already about war. There always was war and they'll always be war that's all I know for sure. Beethoven wasn't a fan of it and neither am I!
                      Why fight when there is beer to be drunk and songs to be sung? But asking us to pray for Dubya was taking things a little too far!

                      ------------------
                      "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
                      http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Beethoven's take on the bombardment of Vienna - 'Nothing but human misery all around'

                        A solution : People say 'I want peace'. If you remove I {ego}, and your want {desire}, you are left with peace.

                        ------------------
                        'Man know thyself'

                        [This message has been edited by Peter (edited February 05, 2003).]
                        'Man know thyself'

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Rod:
                          Why fight when there is beer to be drunk and songs to be sung?
                          I have reminded myself here of Alexander's Feast by Handel, a piece known to Beethoven, and a thoroughtly pacifist piece that exemplifies the above statement - especially in the excellent bitter-sweet aria/chorus where the tenor sings...
                          'Bacchus' blessings are a treasure,
                          Drinking is the soldier's pleasure, Rich the treasure, Sweet the pleasure, Sweet is the pleasure after pain.' This is one of my favourites by H.

                          ------------------
                          "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
                          http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Rod:
                            I have reminded myself here of Alexander's Feast by Handel, a piece known to Beethoven, and a thoroughtly pacifist piece that exemplifies the above statement - especially in the excellent bitter-sweet aria/chorus where the tenor sings...
                            'Bacchus' blessings are a treasure,
                            Drinking is the soldier's pleasure, Rich the treasure, Sweet the pleasure, Sweet is the pleasure after pain.' This is one of my favourites by H.

                            Hey, I think that was our 10,000th post! How nice!


                            ------------------
                            "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin
                            http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Rod:
                              Hey, I think that was our 10,000th post! How nice!


                              Cool!
                              "Finis coronat opus "

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                                #30
                                Yep. In this forum, anyway.

                                [This message has been edited by Chris (edited February 05, 2003).]

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