Beethoven and punk rock

[Geordie]

Beethoven has been called the original punk
rocker. Anybody have any views on this?

Geordie

[Joy]

Originally posted by Geordie:
Beethoven has been called the original punk
rocker. Anybody have any views on this?

Geordie

Who calls him this?

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Who calls him this?

I've heard similar references to Beethoven being the first rocker, I suppose it's because there is so much electricity in his music (when its not perfomed in the usual slob-handed manner!), and I suppose it was somewhat shocking to many at the time. I'm sure Beethoven said this of himself, about this electricity.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited January 28, 2003).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I've heard similar references to Beethoven being the first rocker, I suppose it's because there is so much electricity in his music (when its not perfomed in the usual slob-handed manner!), and I suppose it was somewhat shocking to many at the time. I'm sure Beethoven said this of himself, about this electricity.

How anyone can compare Beethoven to punk rock is beyond me! To call Beethoven the first punk rocker is to imply that groups such as the sex pistols were inspired by Beethoven - I doubt they knew his name, how to spell it or a single note he ever wrote - the assertion is ludicrous! Arguments such as these are designed to lower Beethoven onto the same level of trash we are subjected to today that is not music at all, rather anti-music.

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'Man know thyself'

[Steppenwolf]

Originally posted by Peter:
How anyone can compare Beethoven to punk rock is beyond me! To call Beethoven the first punk rocker is to imply that groups such as the sex pistols were inspired by Beethoven - I doubt they knew his name, how to spell it or a single note he ever wrote - the assertion is ludicrous! Arguments such as these are designed to lower Beethoven onto the same level of trash we are subjected to today that is not music at all, rather anti-music.

Here here!
To repeat myself again (from another thread) Beethoven would turn over in his grave if he knew punk rockers were associating themselves with him!
I have several times noticed an attempt to recast Beethoven in the mold of a modern rocker (remember that lame and ridiculous movie, Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure?, or whatever it was called, where a couple of pee-brain American teenage twits capture some historical figures with the help of their time machine, bring them to the future and 'enlighten' them with all the wonders of modern, tawdry American pop culture).
It is worthwhile reminding people that Beethoven disaproved of Mozart's opera Cossi fan Tutti, because he thought it was immoral! God knows what he would have thought of a bunch of drug crazed rockers, jumping around screaming like a bunch of maniacs!
Seriously though, Jonny Rotten and the Sex Pistols are amusing and entertaining in their own sort of way but you can't compare them to a musical genius like Beethoven.

(I will remind you again, I am only 22, so you can't dismiss what I am saying as the ramblings of an old grandad .. perhaps I am old for my age?)


[This message has been edited by Steppenwolf (edited January 28, 2003).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Arguments such as these are designed to lower Beethoven onto the same level of trash we are subjected to today that is not music at all, rather anti-music.

I was unaware of any argument, it is a fact that such statments have been made about Beethoven and modern music. This is hardly a direct musical comparison but a more abstract analogy. Although how many of B's contemporaries must have thought of his output being 'anti-music'!?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited January 28, 2003).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rod:
I was unaware of any argument, it is a fact that such statments have been made about Beethoven and modern music. This is hardly a direct musical comparison but a more abstract analogy. Although how many of B's contemporaries must have thought of his output being 'anti-music'!?

That's true. His music was probably radical for it's day. Every music era has it's own radicals that usually stand out, sometimes these are the ones who are remembered the most, the ones who are the most different, like The Beatles. I don't think anyone actually compares B to Punk Rockers.

Joy

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I was unaware of any argument, it is a fact that such statments have been made about Beethoven and modern music. This is hardly a direct musical comparison but a more abstract analogy. Although how many of B's contemporaries must have thought of his output being 'anti-music'!?

Ok - the anology is ludicrous then - that's my statement!

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'Man know thyself'

[ann hathaway]

The ultimate insult!!

[ann hathaway]

The ultimate insult!!

[ann hathaway]

Sorry, but the above was submitted in error, I hadn't quite finished. and could'nt delete to start again. I mus t have touched the wrong key.


The Ultimate insult again!!


At work in clinic yesterday I was enjoying listening to Beethoven's Egmont Overture, when a colleague said to me, Oh margaret you do like listening to thay chitty, chitty bang bang stuff don't you.
Attempting to hide my indignation, I said that the piece was by BEETHOVEN.
It's nothing like childish chitty, chitty bang bang, I hate it!

Trying to wind me up even more, my colleagues proceeded to change the music to pop dirge. I was outnumbered, so I just kept a dignified silence. And went with the fun?
Lamentable isn't it!!

[Joy]

I once worked at a place where the vice president of the company only liked Country music. We had to listen to that day in and day out, he would not allow us to change channels, ever! I can tell you, some of us were glad when he transferred somewhere else!

Joy

[spaceray]

My solution to horrible music at work was to become the boss myself,my long suffering work mates have had their fill of classical music,they think Cher is music,I'd rather listen to Wagner.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Ok - the anology is ludicrous then - that's my statement!

Hey, you guys gotta chill out a bit. I can tell you something even more ludicrous to me than this analogy, ie when people here seriously discuss the topic of classical music 'vs' pop as though they were natural competitors. It's ridiculous, and degrades the forum.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[ann hathaway]

O Freunde, nicht diese Tone!!