Was Beethoven Nationalist or Universalist?

[Serge]

It is indeed auspicious that Beethoven's paramount composition, the ne plus ultra of extended symphonic form and assumed musical standardbearer of humankind, was his Ninth Symphony. His final word on the limits of Classical compositional method and the possibility afforded the new realm of existential composition is the peak by which all others must and forevermore compare by. No matter what the details are, to spend years and years contemplating putting celebratory lyrics to music was not a simple matter of "making music". If B. wanted to, he could've written off a lieder in a week to Schiller's words. He could've taken any number of opportunities to write those lyrics into a song cycle, opera, oratorio, or whatever, but he didn't. He wanted to do those words justice. Finally, he was able to do so-- to a melody so simple and elemental it spanned no more than FIVE NOTES, yet so heart-wrenchingly elated and gorgeous that its immortality was instantly assured. To say that Beethoven was a cynic or misanthrope is placing the bitterest punishment on an artist who did more to make his art speak to the audience for a REASON than any other I know. The full reason I have come to this idea is long and complex (something I'm willing to share if anyone cares to read it), but in my mind I know for a fact Ludwig was a universalist, a humanist. To assume less would be an insult.

p.s. please don't think I'm pontificating; I believe every last word I've just written.

[Luis]

Originally posted by Serge:


To say that Beethoven was a cynic or misanthrope is placing the bitterest punishment on an artist who did more to make his art speak to the audience for a REASON than any other I know. The full reason I have come to this idea is long and complex (something I'm willing to share if anyone cares to read it), but in my mind I know for a fact Ludwig was a universalist, a humanist. To assume less would be an insult.
.

I agree totally with you, but I don't think Rod was trying to say B was a cynic at all. Please! I'd love to read your points on B's motivations.

PS: Mahler rules!

[Rod]

Originally posted by Luis:
I agree totally with you, but I don't think Rod was trying to say B was a cynic at all. Please! I'd love to read your points on B's motivations.

PS: Mahler rules!

Thanks for writing for me what I was about to write myself! All I was saying is that a more complex psychological situation may have been at work than just promoting the brotherhood of man. When one considers the verses B selected and how he used them, this is not an unreasonable position. But I admit I'm not in a position to say exactly what B's motivation was, and do not habitually attribute my own psychological assessments to B's actions! That there is a universal dimention to all of Beethoven's work is so blatantly apparent that it's not really a topic for discussion in itself.

Oh, and, just as a matter of interest, I would be interested to know which minor principality is Mahler the sovereign?

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Luis]

Originally posted by Rod:
(...)
Oh, and, just as a matter of interest, I would be interested to know which minor principality is Mahler the sovereign?

Rod

No, I am the only sovereign. You'll see, I own the power of election and deprivation on a Kingdom: that of my musical pleasure, which I exercise with total authority and independence. Not having myself the enough qualifications to govern, I delegate this authority to other people. Not long time ago I happen to know a Bohemian reputed composer, a bit neurotic himself, to whom I decided, being myself a little neurotic too, to give an opportunity.
So I put him recently as mayor of one of the counties, which is part of one of the richest province: The Symphony. It turns out that in my opinion he is making an excellent work after all. The town has a powerful and well-motivated militia whose armament is now the envy of the rest of the counties, still when many of the other mayors don't share their warring spirit.
Anyway, their militia took him to win most of the bloody battles in those they were wrapped up; and that satisfies me particularly. My right hand and the only one I consider his position being result of divine right, Beethoven, with whom I have the habit of consulting his opinion permanently on the rest of the mayors, and particularly on this province, seems to be satisfied, although he believes the form that Mahler uses is not his own and criticize his opulence and sometimes chaotic form of government. However, I am more than pleased about how M. gave unity to the hectic landscape. When one walks in the town, for example, goes liking all you can be seeing, even though it is sometimes not possible to perceive an only guiding architecture of the place and it could be queerly difficult to guess how the next construction will be. The profuse and colorful ornamentation, which might not be liked by many visitors, it is of my pleasure though. I would invite anyone who wants to know this beautiful town!

Luis.

[Michael]

Brilliant reply, Luis. Bravo!

Michael

[Peter]

I second that - very inspired Luis -you deserve a literary prize !!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 11-26-2000).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I second that - very inspired Luis -you deserve a literary prize !!

Whatever boys...whatever...

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin