Please offer an opinion

[Gurn Blanston]

There is no recording on CD of Opus 63 and only 1, probably out of print, of Opus 64. Op. 63 is a Trio for Piano, Violin & Cello in Eb that is arranged from the String Quintet Op. 4. Op 64 is a Sonata for Piano & Cello which is arranged from the String Trio Op 3. In neither case is the arranger known, nor is it known if B approved or even had knowledge of them. Bear in mind that there is no doubt whatsoever that B composed the original versions, so it is HIS music. My question is, given that there are a variety of works out there that ARE accepted as legitimate in exactly the same circumstances as these and which are played and recorded regularly much to our enjoyment, should these works be outcast? If you had an opportunity to purchase a well recorded and performed disk at a reasonable price (Naxos for instance), would you, as Beethoven lover do so? Please say "yea" or "nay", and some reasons wouldn't hurt either.
Thanks in advance and Best Regards.
Gurn

[This message has been edited by Gurn Blanston (edited January 31, 2003).]

[Peter]

Op.63 was an arrangement of an arrangement! The original was the octet Op.103 written in Bonn which B arranged and revised as a string quintet Op.4. It is not known who arranged Op.63 (perhaps a pupil?) but it was published in 1806 so B probably approved it. Op.64 (pub.1807) is an arrangement of the string trio Op.3 which also exists in an incomplete piano trio version (Hess47).

The point is that arrangements were very common because of the large number of amateur musicians which created an additional market for the composer and of course there were no recordings! So there is no need today for them - I'd have no objection to hearing Op.63 and Op.64, but does it matter when we have the originals?

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'Man know thyself'

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Peter:
version (Hess47).

The point is that arrangements were very common because of the large number of amateur musicians which created an additional market for the composer and of course there were no recordings! So there is no need today for them - I'd have no objection to hearing Op.63 and Op.64, but does it matter when we have the originals?

I suppose it doesn't, other than that I would like to hear them played with that set of instruments. And even the arrangements ae not entirely exactly identical to the originals, e.g. there are several bars in the Notturno Op 42 which differ from the original (String Trio Op 8) because of the different nature of the instruments and because of different thoughts occurring to the composer at the time, although in the case of Op 42 there is no doubt that the additions were B's, according to the liner notes, which may not be the case with the others, I don't know.
Regards, Gurn

[Rod]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
There is no recording on CD of Opus 63 and only 1, probably out of print, of Opus 64. Op. 63 is a Trio for Piano, Violin & Cello in Eb that is arranged from the String Quintet Op. 4. Op 64 is a Sonata for Piano & Cello which is arranged from the String Trio Op 3. In neither case is the arranger known, nor is it known if B approved or even had knowledge of them. Bear in mind that there is no doubt whatsoever that B composed the original versions, so it is HIS music. My question is, given that there are a variety of works out there that ARE accepted as legitimate in exactly the same circumstances as these and which are played and recorded regularly much to our enjoyment, should these works be outcast? If you had an opportunity to purchase a well recorded and performed disk at a reasonable price (Naxos for instance), would you, as Beethoven lover do so? Please say "yea" or "nay", and some reasons wouldn't hurt either.
Thanks in advance and Best Regards.
Gurn

[This message has been edited by Gurn Blanston (edited January 31, 2003).]

From my experience these annonymous arrangements are not up to the standard I would expect from a pure Beethoven composition, even when they have been corrected by Beethoven himself. The textures are just not the same even though it may sound familiar. I have a few such recordings but no longer play them as the originals are vastly superior in every case.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin