Music at Mass

[spaceray]

When Beethoven was young he played the organ at Mass at Marienkirche,what music would he have played?

[Peter]

Church music in the library at Bonn contained Masses by Antonio Caldara, Georg Reutter, Albrechtsberger, Gassman and Haydn.


Wegeler has this to report about Beethoven's growing confidence as a performing musician:

"In the Catholic church the lamentations of Jeremiah are sung on three days of holy week . . . Since the organ must remain silent during those three days, the singer received only an improvised accompaniment from a pianist. Once when it was Beethoven's turn to perform this duty, he asked the singer Heller who was very secure indeed in his intonation, whether he could throw him off, and he used the rather rashly given permission to wander about so much in the accompaniment that the singer was completely bewildered and could no longer find the closing cadence, even though Beethoven kept striking the note to be chanted in the treble with his little finger."

The Elector is reported as having been secretly amused but as also having requested a more no-nonsense accompaniment in future.



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'Man know thyself'

[ann hathaway]

Spaceray,
I am intrigued at where you found the reference to Marienkirche, I have'nt been able to find so far.

However, I hope this information will be of interest to you regarding the young Beethoven as assistant organist.

According to the Court Calander;

On all Sunday's and regular festivals high mass at 11 am. and vespers at 3.
Vespers will be sung by the court clergy and musicians in plain chant with the exeption of the Magnificat, which will be performed in concerted music. On all Wednesdays in Lent the Miserere will be sung by the chapel at 5pm. and on fridays the Stabat Mater. etc..

Such a programme gave the organist something at least to do, and when Neefe left Bonn for Munster, 1782, he left his pupil no easy task.
Overwhelmed with other business, Neefe could no longer conduct at the pianoforte the rehearsals for the stage, and Ludwig van Beethoven, now 12 years old, became also cembalist in the orchestra.
In those days, every orchestra was provided with a harpsichord or pianoforte, seated at which the director guided the performance, playing from the score.
Here then, was in part the origin of that marvellous power, with which in later years Beethoven astonished his contemporaries, of reading and playing the most difficult and involved scores at first sight.
The position of cembalist was one of equal honour and responsibility.

I hope this bit of delving has been helpful.
At least it has made me do a bit of homework!.

[spaceray]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ann hathaway:
[B]

Spaceray,
I am intrigued at where you found the reference to Marienkirche, I have'nt been able to find so far.

Thanks ann for your help ,nice to be able to find someone to do my homework for me.
The book is "Beethoven ,The Composer as Hero"
by Philippe A Autexier

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by ann hathaway:


Overwhelmed with other business, Neefe could no longer conduct at the pianoforte the rehearsals for the stage, and Ludwig van Beethoven, now 12 years old, became also cembalist in the orchestra.
In those days, every orchestra was provided with a harpsichord or pianoforte, seated at which the director guided the performance, playing from the score.
Here then, was in part the origin of that marvellous power, with which in later years Beethoven astonished his contemporaries, of reading and playing the most difficult and involved scores at first sight.
The position of cembalist was one of equal honour and responsibility.

I hope this bit of delving has been helpful.
At least it has made me do a bit of homework!.

If Beethoven was leading a musical service at 12, and thereafter studied with the long list of teachers listed by Peter in a separate thread, it shows how really dedicated he was to learning everything about music he possibly could before beginning his full-time career. I am sure that by the time they got to the last few on that long list of teachers, many others would have stopped and declared themselves fully educated.

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited January 30, 2003).]

[John Rasmussen]

Originally posted by ann hathaway:

In those days, every orchestra was provided with a harpsichord or pianoforte, seated at which the director guided the performance, playing from the score.

Such a situation often prevails in smaller churches today, in which the pianist or organist also has to direct the choir from the keyboard. This means the choir must have a lot of initiative. Fortunate is the church that has fine artists at both keyboard and podium.

It's interesting how musical situations recur; I have often thought that the Baroque/Classical orchestra layout is remarkably similar to a jazz band with the keyboard and a low stringed instrument being the foundation for both groups.

BTW, do you have any connection with Shakespeare's wife?

[ann hathaway]

Connection with Shakespeare's wife?
Now that would be a fine thing.

Just imagine the attraction I could create as a guide for the tourists at Stratford-Upon-Avon, showing them around the Shakespeare Houses, and lecturing at the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust.


"We are such stuff as dreams are made on"

The Tempest.1V;1