Beethoven 's religion.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chris:
I guess I missed out on a lot of great family stuff, since my immediate family always lived far away from the rest of our relatives. Most of them have passed away now

That is sad. I was pretty lucky, when I was growing up in Indiana all my relatives lived close by in Chicago so we got to see them quite often.

Joy

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited January 27, 2003).]

[ann hathaway]

In reply to Rod, regarding the text of Christ of the Mount Olives, being considered as blasphemous.

It is true that Later he regreted publishing this work, as he was disatisfied with his treatment of the part of Christ.
I suppose really the work is more a drama of the soul.
I believe that Handel's Messiah was also considered blasphemous, maybe it was something to do with Handel being a Lutheran.
Thankfully the Messiah is celebrated every year.

Later Beethoven's monumental Missa Solemnis,
based faithfully on the traditional catholic Mass--Beethoven's final testament.
Sadly I do not think it was performed in Vienna....Perhaps Andrea will enlighten me more on this subject.
I believe there was a televised performance of the Missa Solemnis in St. Peter's in Rome, 1971
The ocassion was the annual concert in honour of the Pope.

Perhaps some of you have seen this perfomed.
I do not have a television, as I decided there just isn't anything worth watching these days, I simply just do not have the time.
I can hardly keep up with the lively discussions on this site. I am busy at the moment learning British Sign Language for the hard of hearing, I am enjoying every bit of it. Though I have a way to go before I achieve my aim as an interpreter. I do not get time for much practice. As I can get quite hooked on this site.

[Joy]

Originally posted by ann hathaway:
[B]

I am busy at the moment learning British Sign Language for the hard of hearing, I am enjoying every bit of it. Though I have a way to go before I achieve my aim as an interpreter.

B]

Many years ago I learned American sign language and was quite fascinated with it. I'm sorry to say I've forgotten most of it now although I do remember most of the alphabet.

Joy

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by ann hathaway:


It is true that Later he regreted publishing this work, as he was disatisfied with his treatment of the part of Christ.
I suppose really the work is more a drama of the soul.

Who wrote the text of this work?

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Who wrote the text of this work?

Franz Xaver Huber

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'Man know thyself'

[ann hathaway]

Beethoven relished the opportunity to collaborate with Franz Xaver Huber, a popular opera librettist of the period, to compose his first Oratorio, based on the gospel passages of Christ on the Mount of Olives, and focuses absolutely all of the action of the character of Jesus.
The character of Jesus is strongly individual and very different from the Gospel accounts.

[ann hathaway]

Beethoven relished the opportunity to collaborate with Franz Xaver Huber, a popular opera librettist of the period, to compose his first Oratorio, based on the gospel passages of Christ on the Mount of Olives, and focuses absolutely all of the action of the character of Jesus.
The character of Jesus is strongly individual and very different from the Gospel accounts.

[Andrea]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ann hathaway:
[B]

Later Beethoven's monumental Missa Solemnis,
based faithfully on the traditional catholic Mass--Beethoven's final testament.
Sadly I do not think it was performed in Vienna....Perhaps Andrea will enlighten me more on this subject.


I found this information from "Thayer's Life of Beethoven":

"The official announcement of the concert read as follows:
GRAND MUSICAL CONCERT by Herr L.v. Beethoven which will take place tomorrow, May 7, 1824 in the R.I. Court Theatre beside the Kärnthnerthor.
The musical pieces to be performed are the latest works of Herr Ludwig van Beethoven.
First: A Grand Overture
Second: Three Grand Hymns with Solo and Chorus Voices.
Third: A Grand Symphony with Solo and Chorus Voices entering in the finale on Schiller's Ode to Joy."

The overture was "Consecration of the House, Op.124"; the three grand hymns were the Kyrie, Credo, and Agnus Dei from the "Missa Solemnis, Op. 123"; and the symphony was the "Symphony #9,Op.125". I read elsewhere that the Missa Solemnis appears not to have been heard in its entirety in Vienna until as late as 1845, although it had been performed in other cities.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Andrea:

GRAND MUSICAL CONCERT by Herr L.v. Beethoven which will take place tomorrow, May 7, 1824 in the R.I. Court Theatre beside the Kärnthnerthor.

B]

Do you know if this theatre where they performed the 9th Symphony is still standing?

Joy

[Andrea]

Originally posted by Joy:
Do you know if this theatre where they performed the 9th Symphony is still standing?

Joy

Unfortunately both of the R.I. Court Theatre and the Kärnthnerthor no longer exist.

[Rod]

Originally posted by ann hathaway:



In reply to Rod, regarding the text of Christ of the Mount Olives, being considered as blasphemous.

It is true that Later he regreted publishing this work, as he was disatisfied with his treatment of the part of Christ.
I suppose really the work is more a drama of the soul.
I believe that Handel's Messiah was also considered blasphemous, maybe it was something to do with Handel being a Lutheran.
Thankfully the Messiah is celebrated every year.

Later Beethoven's monumental Missa Solemnis,
based faithfully on the traditional catholic Mass--Beethoven's final testament.
Sadly I do not think it was performed in Vienna....Perhaps Andrea will enlighten me more on this subject.
I believe there was a televised performance of the Missa Solemnis in St. Peter's in Rome, 1971
The ocassion was the annual concert in honour of the Pope.

Perhaps some of you have seen this perfomed.
I do not have a television, as I decided there just isn't anything worth watching these days, I simply just do not have the time.
I can hardly keep up with the lively discussions on this site. I am busy at the moment learning British Sign Language for the hard of hearing, I am enjoying every bit of it. Though I have a way to go before I achieve my aim as an interpreter. I do not get time for much practice. As I can get quite hooked on this site.

I was not really concerned with Beethoven's treatment, just the fact that it has Christ as a singing character would be too much for some in those days. In England it was performed with a different text. Messiah got off to a very rocky start in this respect because is was not the done thing to have religious texts sung in the theatre, and Messiah doesn't even have a Jesus character!

I've only heard the Missa live once, years ago at the Royal Festival Hall, with the Bach choir. Very stirring, but they had a break after the Credo, rather pointless really.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited January 28, 2003).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by Andrea:
Unfortunately both of the R.I. Court Theatre and the Kärnthnerthor no longer exist.

Too bad no one had the foresight to preserve these historic buildings.

Joy

[Peter]

Originally posted by Joy:
Too bad no one had the foresight to preserve these historic buildings.

Joy

Many were pulled down in the 1860's (I think that's the right date!) to make way for the Ring - the impressive road which encircles the old city of Vienna.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

Impressive or not, I think they tear down too many buildings to make way for other things. Looks like they always did that. I know how it is where I live, they're constantly wanting to destroy older more historical buildings to put in a new parking lot or shopping mall. Many people protest this and sometimes get their way. A few historical buildings were saved here through this process which they ended up renovating and now they're using them for theatres, concerts and such, and they're beautiful buildings.

Joy

[spaceray]

Here in Victoria BC the heritage laws are so strict that one may not even change the plumbing of ones heritage home without all the proper processing .Buildings downtown are
kept low rise so as not to tower over the old city.