Wagner

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:
Well, Beethoven's brashness is always refined, whereas Berlioz's certainly isn't, it's just a mess! Apart from this I just think the music I've heard is poor in any case.

I think in many ways (even similar to Beethoven in his own time) Berlioz is difficult to listen to because much of his audience do not understand what he was trying to accomplish. Several of his large scale works such as Lelio, the Requiem, Te Deum, and even L'Enfance du Crist are experimental in nature. For fun I like to listen the his Funeral & Resurrection Symphony for Wind Ensemble. Mainly because the ideas and methods are still fresh to me, even though I have had schooling in some of the avant garde works from Ives to Penderecki. But one has to have his own perspective and that says a lot for the enjoyment gotten from the work.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Joy:
I can't find in our PBS listings either!
Maybe it'll be on at another time.

Joy

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited January 24, 2003).]

This was not on PBS--sorry about that. I meant NPR--National Public Radio. I got excited and got the two medias mixed up. But it was still a wonderful performance. I wish I could remember the name of the Singer that did Brunhilde in the production; she is a well known Wagner artist and did a wonderful job the other night.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Sorrano:

For fun I like to listen the his Funeral & Resurrection Symphony for Wind Ensemble.

I agree - I think Berlioz conducted the work with a sword marching through the streets of Paris - I do recall one rather intoxicated evening trying to reproduce the effect with a few friends singing along to a recording of the Triomphe section, minus Paris and the sword though!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Joy:
I totally agree. They (the Rolling Sones) still have a lot of energy to give and are so good! What concert was it? From their recent tour? Where was it and when was the date?

I can't find (Gotterdamerung)in our PBS listings either!
Maybe it'll be on at another time.

Joy

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited January 24, 2003).]

The Stones concert was from their current tour. It was on HBO live from Madison Square Garden in NYC last Sat. night. I missed that and caught the repeat. It will probably air again several times if you have HBO.

I also hope that the Gotterdamerung concert comes along again, Sorrano says it is on radio, not TV.

In the meantime there is a very nice love duet aria MP3 by Wagner on my 'Some Wagner Tracks', which only Sorrano has listened to. The other replies there are all from me, trying to attract attention to it, shamelessly and in vain.


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited January 25, 2003).]

[spaceray]

A review of a book titled "Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics'by Frederic Spotts mentions that"Hitler made his dictatorship into performance art,with mass rallies ,coreographed pageantry,patriotic music and omnipresent swastika symbolism.He turned major artists,such as Richard Strauss and Wilhelm Furtwangler,into pathetic courtiers,and lavishly subsidized the Wagner festival.Eventually, however, he found that Allied bombing provided more than enough Wagnerian effects. He stopped listening to Wagner in 1943 and discovered he preferred gentle Bruckner and even charming Franz Lehar"!

[Peter]

Originally posted by spaceray:
He stopped listening to Wagner in 1943 and discovered he preferred gentle Bruckner and even charming Franz Lehar"!

I didn't know this! I have to say though that I don't find Bruckner 'gentle' but rather tedious. His music to me always sounds as though conceived for the organ (he was a fine organist) and seems to consist of endlessly repeated phrases getting louder and louder, then softer and softer!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Chaszz]

http://www.zigmund.com/Wagner_Spring_Song.MP3

[Steppenwolf]

Originally posted by spaceray:
A review of a book titled "Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics'by Frederic Spotts mentions that"Hitler made his dictatorship into performance art,with mass rallies ,coreographed pageantry,patriotic music and omnipresent swastika symbolism.He turned major artists,such as Richard Strauss and Wilhelm Furtwangler,into pathetic courtiers,and lavishly subsidized the Wagner festival.Eventually, however, he found that Allied bombing provided more than enough Wagnerian effects. He stopped listening to Wagner in 1943 and discovered he preferred gentle Bruckner and even charming Franz Lehar"!

Stopped listening in 1943? That's not what I have read.
I have read that in his last days in 1945, down in the bunker in Berlin, when the end was nigh, he would recall old times, the 'good old days' in his youth when he used to hang out at Bayreuth all the time. He would play Wagner records to relieve his misery. And the last days of his life were called, by his companions, Führerdamerrung, 'The Twilight of the Führer'!

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Peter:
I didn't know this! I have to say though that I don't find Bruckner 'gentle' but rather tedious. His music to me always sounds as though conceived for the organ (he was a fine organist) and seems to consist of endlessly repeated phrases getting louder and louder, then softer and softer!

Bruckner's music is conceived for the organ. I think many conductors fail to understand this and hence there are not many good performances of his work. On occasion I've run across some of the symphonic movements arranged for organ and I feel they work very well.

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
http://www.zigmund.com/Wagner_Spring_Song.MP3

The greatest piece of music that just about nobody is listening to. Now being advertised on two threads. Probably in vain.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
[B] The Stones concert was from their current tour. It was on HBO live from Madison Square Garden in NYC last Sat. night. I missed that and caught the repeat. It will probably air again several times if you have HBO.

B]

Thanks. I'll watch for it. The Stones will be here in the Valley this Thurs. Tickets are $50.00-$300.00!

Joy

[spaceray]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
http://www.zigmund.com/Wagner_Spring_Song.MP3

Well I'm sorry to report that I thought this was awful,where is the melody in this music ,just when you think it might amount to something off he goes into some new path that seems to lead nowhere ,and it's all so strident and as earnest as Richard Rodgers
broadway musical with out the tunes.The voices sounded as tho' they could not quite anticipate the next note I could imagine them looking at eachother as if to say where do we go next.I looked up dismayed to see we were only half way through it seemed to go on forever.

[Rutradelusasa]

I recently bought a recording of Wagner's The flying Dutchman.
Was it worth my shopping? I bought it because it was brand new (actually never opened) and cost about $10 dollars. I bought it used but who sold it to the store never used it, so I tought it would be a nice thing only to say that I have...
this is my recording:
Der Fligende Holländer - Bayreuther Festspiele - Estes/Balslev/Salminen/Schunk/Sclemm/Clark - Woldemar Nelsson

Does anyone knows any of these people?

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
I recently bought a recording of Wagner's The flying Dutchman.
Was it worth my shopping? I bought it because it was brand new (actually never opened) and cost about $10 dollars. I bought it used but who sold it to the store never used it, so I tought it would be a nice thing only to say that I have...
this is my recording:
Der Fligende Holländer - Bayreuther Festspiele - Estes/Balslev/Salminen/Schunk/Sclemm/Clark - Woldemar Nelsson

Does anyone knows any of these people?

This is one of my favorite operas. But I don't know any of the performers.

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Well I'm sorry to report that I thought this was awful,where is the melody in this music ,just when you think it might amount to something off he goes into some new path that seems to lead nowhere ,and it's all so strident and as earnest as Richard Rodgers
broadway musical with out the tunes.The voices sounded as tho' they could not quite anticipate the next note I could imagine them looking at eachother as if to say where do we go next.I looked up dismayed to see we were only half way through it seemed to go on forever.

Well, thanks for your honest opinion, Muriel. It sure is different from my experience, but who can account for these differences. It is good to know that somebody at least is trying these out.
I'll put up one or two more before I give up.