Most challenging piece

[spaceray]

..As soon as a technical minimum requirements are met....
[/B]

I started learning to play the piano in June,I am the proverbial old dog for whom it is dificult to learn new tricks.I am begining to think that I may not live long enough to ever meet the most minimum of requirements.I make the same stupid mistakes in the same place every time ,even when I have marked the trouble spot in my music to warn me that it is fast approaching.

[dice45]

spaceray,
i envy you, i also am an old dog and it took me 40ys to find out which instrument i'd like to play. yes, it's a keyboard instrument but not pianoforte. My hand's micromotorics would not be sufficient for that. Not coming near to be sufficient.

I long for the day i can afford both space and money for a harpsichord (i have a friend who built a harpsichord and who is building a second one, maybe i can talk him out of the inferior one of both ) and for good lessons.
Bad lessons i had my youth, i made a futile attempt to learn clarinet (never really liked that instrument) and my teacher would tell me consistently how stiff my fingers are and how badly suited for that instrument. Encouraging, isn't it?

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Greets,
Bernhard

[Joy]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Do you remember the pianists name?

His name is Caio Pagano and he is the music professor here at Arizona State University. He gives his recitals for free throughout the winter and in the summer he tours the United States.

Joy

[Joy]

Originally posted by spaceray:
[B] I started learning to play the piano in June,I am the proverbial old dog for whom it is dificult to learn new tricks.
B]

Sounds like me!!

Joy

[Rutradelusasa]

I have played the Sonata quasi una fantasia n2 already and I was so cheered when I finished that I realized:
It wasn´t so dificult, once you get muscular resistence and the melody takes you in a way you can whisper it as you sleep while your fingers play some notes (wich comes somewhat naturally if you give deep toughts to the music) you are able to play it, just do it with your heart and biceps.

As for the most chalenging piece, I´ve gotta say, it´s neither the apassionata or the hammerklavier, it surely isn´t the tough I-like-trills-a-lot-but-don´t-care-much-for-pianists third movement of the waldstein.
It must be those 3 against 2 from the 4th piano concerto.
One must be much mature in Beethoven music to fully apreciate the potentials of that lovely melody and the toughness of that battle between the hands that occurr whenever Beethoven decided it was time for a new challenging part for the piano, I mean, GIMME A BREAK, he didn´t spare even the orchestra, who has lot, and I mean LOTS of trouble to play the last movement.

I´ve gotta say, that´s the once piece I don´t try even to play the melody line, I keep it to my stereo.

Just my 2 cents.

[This message has been edited by Rutradelusasa (edited December 09, 2002).]

[this is Nuh]

I really think the "Fantasie Impromptu" by Chopin is a challenging piece, but we're talking about Beethoven, so I think the Hammerklavier Sonata is very hard both technically and musically.

[this is Nuh]

Originally posted by this is Nuh:
I really think the "Fantasie Impromptu" by Chopin is a challenging piece, but we're talking about Beethoven, so I think the Hammerklavier Sonata is very hard both technically and musically.

I also might add that "Fantasie Impromptu" is a wonderful piece as well.. )

[margaret hopkins]

To Peter on the Hammerklavier Sonata opus 106. The best playing of Beethovens Opus 106 is by Alfred Brendel, to my mind it is the closest to Beethoven you will ever get. The same applies to all beethovens sonatas and piano conterto,s. opus 106 is sublimely played. you can almost feel beethovens presence. The 3rd movement Adagio sostenuto is intensely beautiful. there is one particular note that crushes me . it is the most lonliest note in the universe and at the same time so beautiful. As a pianist i would be interested in your analysis of the piece please peter.

[Chris]

Originally posted by margaret hopkins:
To Peter on the Hammerklavier Sonata opus 106. The best playing of Beethovens Opus 106 is by Alfred Brendel, to my mind it is the closest to Beethoven you will ever get. The same applies to all beethovens sonatas and piano conterto,s. opus 106 is sublimely played. you can almost feel beethovens presence. The 3rd movement Adagio sostenuto is intensely beautiful. there is one particular note that crushes me . it is the most lonliest note in the universe and at the same time so beautiful. As a pianist i would be interested in your analysis of the piece please peter.

While my favorite Op. 106 overall is Brendel's most recent recording of it, I think the 3rd movement is not played that well. It's way too slow - it takes him almost 20 minutes to get through it!

[Peter]

Originally posted by margaret hopkins:
As a pianist i would be interested in your analysis of the piece please peter.

Well the first thing that strikes one about this profound movement aside from its length is its key F# minor in a Bb major work - Tovey suggested that this was actually an easier way of writing Gb minor. The famous 1st bar addition was possibly added because the rising 3rd it creates is answered in the following bar by a falling 3rd. The movement is in sonata form. A bridge passage at bar 27 leads to the 2nd subject in D at bar 45. There then follows a development section which soon moves to C# major and after some drastic modulations finally arrives back at F# minor where the the theme is restated though disguised by right hand demi-semiquavers. The 2nd subject reappears in the tonic major with some subtle changes. A coda follows which really is a further working out of both main themes.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chaszz]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dice45:
[B]

[B][QUOTE]
Bernhard, I am looking for a good performance of the Bach/Busoni piano version of the Chaconne. I had a very good one on vinyl by Alicia De La Roccha but the record was damaged thru my own mishandling. This performance is now out of print. Do you have any you can recommend, please?

[John Rasmussen]

Originally posted by dice45:
In 3rd mvmnt is not happing much (except if major goofs happen, that's spectacular then :-) ), it's slow, unspectacular, just mood and it is very easy to make happen that sort of boredom what critics call "lengthes" in (bad) epic movies and what is happening in almost every Wagner opera.

I beg to differ! The third movement is the perfect foil to the others, a beautiful meditation and a perfect musical "dark night of the soul." But, as I have said in another note, it takes tremendous artistry to play well slow. The greatest artists, such as Brendel and Schnabel, can stretch a slow movement almost to the breaking point yet maintain forward motion and intensity. Just listen to Schnabel's Opus 111 for the perfect example.

Gustav Mahler said, "When I see that an Adagio is not making its effect, I slow down; I don't speed up like others." (Don't quote me; I'm not sure these are exactly his words but the concept is his.)

BTW, I've never dared to attempt Opus 106, but I've tried for years to master just Opus 57's first movement and still don't have it ready for the public. It needs awesome power and intensity, and the technique isn't easy either.

[Chaszz]

[quote]Originally posted by Chaszz:
[b][QUOTE]Originally posted by dice45:
[B]

Bernhard, I am looking for a good performance of the Bach/Busoni piano version of the Chaconne. I had a very good one on vinyl by Alicia De La Roccha but the record was damaged thru my own mishandling. This performance is now out of print. Do you have any you can recommend, please?

And I mean on CD, not vinyl.

[Leigh M]

This is my first post on the forum

I enjoyed reading this topic, but i'm surprised no one has mentioned the octave glissandos that appear in the final presto of the 3rd movement of the waldstein, which i imagine would be devilish on a modern piano, it's practically impossible on mine.

Apart from that I definately agree that the Hammerklavier would be the hardest, not only because of the fugue, but given its length you need to be able to engage the listener for over forty minutes, no mean feat!

[Rod]

Originally posted by Leigh M:
This is my first post on the forum

I enjoyed reading this topic, but i'm surprised no one has mentioned the octave glissandos that appear in the final presto of the 3rd movement of the waldstein, which i imagine would be devilish on a modern piano, it's practically impossible on mine.

Welcome to the club Leigh. We did discuss this point some time ago, in conjunction with the use of fortepianos for Beethoven's music. In some circumstances it is clear than B was making use of characteristics specific to the pianos of the day, that do not translate so easily on modern pianos. I'd be interested to know what kind of piano you have.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited January 14, 2003).]