Beethoven's lawsuits

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:
I agree - I'm sure Beethoven did what he thought was best, but I suspect he wasn't being honest with himself as regards his motives - he obviously wanted a son of his own and Karl fulfilled that role - Johanna he probably saw as a rival for the boy's affections.

I do think there probably was a lot of jealousy going around for the boy's attention. Too bad it had to go the way it did for years in such a long drawn out agonizing affair and ended up such a tragic circumstance for all considered.

Joy

[Rutradelusasa]

Originally posted by Joy:
Don't waste your time unless you are sure you can differentiate the false bits from the actual facts of which there are not that many. There's a few parts that are good and the music is great.

Joy

What are the facts in that movie in your (people in this forum)s opinion? I've watched it a few times and even Schindler's (in the movie) behavior differs from what even him wrote in his book. So, do you guys know what can be considered as a fact there?

[Rod]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
What are the facts in that movie in your (people in this forum)s opinion? I've watched it a few times and even Schindler's (in the movie) behavior differs from what even him wrote in his book. So, do you guys know what can be considered as a fact there?

Almost nothing of this movie can be construed as factual as it stands. It does on occasion make use of recorded events but places them totally out of context, so that the end result is something of a fantasy. Even the music is false - at least in the Mozart film we actually hear a fortepiano and not a Steinway as we hear in IB!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by spaceray:
I have been thinking about renting "Imortal Beloved"ever since I stumbled on this forum but I do not care for Hollywood movies and really disliked the Mozart movie.So is it worth watching?

The music in the movie was enjoyable, but the movie (to mee) was not. I can get the music elsewhere, and I encourage you to do the same.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
What are the facts in that movie in your (people in this forum)s opinion? I've watched it a few times and even Schindler's (in the movie) behavior differs from what even him wrote in his book. So, do you guys know what can be considered as a fact there?

Rod's right. There are really no facts at all. What I meant was that Hollywood took a lot of poetic license, as they usually do, and if you can put the contents in their perspective, you might be able to overlook a lot of the mistakes especially where the dates and events are concerned. One such part comes to mind where they play the Piano Concerto #5 and B can't get it together on stage because of his deafness he can't conduct, he was out of time with the orchestra, etc. and the whole concert was a fiasco. This was just to show you his frustration with his deafness and how it affected his career and ability and that he could no longer perform on stage. But, of course, in real life, he never actually performed the concerto on stage.

Joy



[This message has been edited by Joy (edited January 14, 2003).]

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
What are the facts in that movie in your (people in this forum)s opinion? I've watched it a few times and even Schindler's (in the movie) behavior differs from what even him wrote in his book. So, do you guys know what can be considered as a fact there?

I tend to agree with nearly everything that has been said, with one exception. If you want the facts, certainly don't go to the movie for them. Things are twisted nearly beyond recognition. This is by no means a biography! That being said, it is an acceptable piece of entertainment. I was amused, you can certainly say that the soundtrack is far better than most Hollywood movies have, but I agree with Rod about the fortepiano, if only for the reason that if you are making a movie about 1817-27 then the instruments should be from the period. As a rule of thumb, never believe anything Schindler says unless it is corroborated by at least 5 people, 3 of them known to you personally. ;-))
Regards, Gurn

[Joy]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
I tend to agree with nearly everything that has been said, with one exception. If you want the facts, certainly don't go to the movie for them. Things are twisted nearly beyond recognition. This is by no means a biography!

Regards, Gurn

That's for sure. Even if the movie touts itself as a birgraphy I still wouldn't believe everything about it. Hollywood has an uncontrollable knack to change a person's life story to be more interesting or exciting (as they see it), even if the life is already interesting or exciting. I tend to stick to the documentaries.

Joy

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Joy:
That's for sure. Even if the movie touts itself as a birgraphy I still wouldn't believe everything about it. Hollywood has an uncontrollable knack to change a person's life story to be more interesting or exciting (as they see it), even if the life is already interesting or exciting. I tend to stick to the documentaries.

Joy

Joy,
I understand that. If I am wanting facts, I read a book (caveat emptor there, too) or as you say, watch a documentary. But a lot of the time I am happy just being entertained, and then I can watch a movie with all its fiction and not care if it isn't true. When you see a review of a movie and the person is saying "this can't be true", or "this is just not believable", the likely thing is that it is not intended to be. It's intended to be entertaining, and if you have a "voluntary suspension of disbelief" kind of thing, you CAN be entertained. What I found scary (intellectually) was the number of people who saw Immortal Beloved who then posted on alt.music.classical claiming that they knew Beethoven because they saw this story! Where were their heads???
Best Regards, Gurn

[Joy]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Joy,
I understand that. If I am wanting facts, I read a book (caveat emptor there, too) or as you say, watch a documentary. But a lot of the time I am happy just being entertained, and then I can watch a movie with all its fiction and not care if it isn't true. When you see a review of a movie and the person is saying "this can't be true", or "this is just not believable", the likely thing is that it is not intended to be. It's intended to be entertaining, and if you have a "voluntary suspension of disbelief" kind of thing, you CAN be entertained. What I found scary (intellectually) was the number of people who saw Immortal Beloved who then posted on alt.music.classical claiming that they knew Beethoven because they saw this story! Where were their heads???
Best Regards, Gurn

Gurn,
I understand what you're saying about wanting just purely entertainment, so do I sometimes and then I don't mind if it's fiction. What I don't like is when they hail a movie as being a biography and a true story and they come out with something like the IB. It's been done with other movies about other people as well.
As you say there were plenty of people coming out of that movie and thinking it was all true. That's is, indeed, the scary part.
But how are they to know if they don't know the person's life story. If you see a supposedly biography movie you really should learn something on the subject first so at least you have an idea of what's true or not. That;s what I think anyway.

Regards, Joy