Dream concert

[spaceray]

Recently on this forum Peter and Andrea complained that they had no hope of getting tickets to concerts in famous venues.
If you could create the perfect concert ,the musicians , the program and the venue what would it be?

[Andrea]

Now that's a very difficult question to answer. If I could create my dream concert, what would it be like?

I saw this wonderful picture in an exhibit at the Palais Harrach here in Vienna and I would love to see the subject of this picture in reality. It depicts Franz Schubert sitting at a fortepiano and he is surrounded by many other famous composers. Sitting up in the balcony looking downwards are Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Händel, Haydn and I think Vivaldi. The other composers around Schubert were Mendelssohn, Chopin, Brahms, Wagner, J.Strauss, Rossini and I can't remember the rest. This concert is taking place in heaven and it's nice to see them all happy and enjoying the music being performed. This is what I would love to see and it doesn't matter who is performing or what they play.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Andrea:
Now that's a very difficult question to answer. If I could create my dream concert, what would it be like?

I saw this wonderful picture in an exhibit at the Palais Harrach here in Vienna and I would love to see the subject of this picture in reality. It depicts Franz Schubert sitting at a fortepiano and he is surrounded by many other famous composers. Sitting up in the balcony looking downwards are Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Händel, Haydn and I think Vivaldi. The other composers around Schubert were Mendelssohn, Chopin, Brahms, Wagner, J.Strauss, Rossini and I can't remember the rest. This concert is taking place in heaven and it's nice to see them all happy and enjoying the music being performed. This is what I would love to see and it doesn't matter who is performing or what they play.

That, indeed is a very heavenly concept!

[dice45]

Having a time machine and travel back to a concert on which Solomon (Cutner) is playing Beethoven's Hammerklavier sonata.
Of course dated before Solomon suffered a series of small strokes finally paralyzing any ability to play...

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Greets,
Bernhard

[This message has been edited by dice45 (edited November 28, 2002).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Recently on this forum Peter and Andrea complained that they had no hope of getting tickets to concerts in famous venues.
If you could create the perfect concert ,the musicians , the program and the venue what would it be?

Myself playing the Emperor Concerto in Vienna - very self-indulgent I know!

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'Man know thyself'

[Andrea]

I'd love to see that, Peter. I want a front row seat please. Do you know where in Vienna you would like to perform this concert? And with which orchestra? I'll see if I can arrange it for you here in Vienna.

[Joy]

Going back in time the one concert I would love to have attended would have been the premiere of the 9th Symphony on May 7th, 1824 at the Kaerntner Theatre when Beethoven himself was there.

Joy

[spaceray]

All these suggestions sound terrific,I should like to attend a concert with the choice of venue a georgous Rococo gallery
with beautiful Italian marbles and hung with paintings of JMW Turner.I would throw all caution to the wind and let Rod pick the music and musicians(he has exquisite taste)
and as I was settling myself into my seat I would pray to Orpheus that the great carved and gilded doors would open to reveal Handel or Beethoven at the keyboard and not four guys in tight pvc trousers with a lot of tattoes ans amplified equiptment!

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
[B]...(he has exquisite taste)...
B]

I won't argue with this point, correct as it is, but it is strangely not a point I have seen too often raised.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[dice45]

Having established now the time machine does not throw me errantly into the future, meeting the Evoks and Morlock, knowing that traveling back works in controlled way ...

taking another time machine back to the days when Beethoven himself could play the pianoforte ... listen to a concert Beethoven is playing ... remember he was one of the greatest virtuosos of his time .... just, when Beethoven was still giving concerts, the Hammerklavier sonata was not yet written ... (little devil musing ) letting him accidentally find a copy of the Hammerklavier sonata notes on top of the pianoforte could have driven him crazy but would have spoiled the concert for sure ... his focus a bit distracted then

------------------
Greets,
Bernhard

[This message has been edited by dice45 (edited November 30, 2002).]

[Chaszz]

During the Renaissance Titian painted a series of three mythological pictures for the 'camerino d’alabastro' (a special room) of Alfonso d'Este, Duke of Ferrara. He also repainted the background of a fourth picture. These four masterpieces are now dispersed among three museums and have not been seen together since the 16th century.
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/ex...acchanals.htm. Be sure to click each picture twice to see it at largest scale.

For my concert, this room is recreated and the four paintings are reunited. Beethoven, who loved classical culture, is given time to look at the paintings at his leisure. In the evening a concert takes place in the Camerino with the pictures as background. attended by a select audience, the members of this forum. Beethoven improvises at length on the keyboard, then plays several of his sonatas. As an encore, at the urging of the audience, he improvises again.

[Chaszz]

Very sorry that url doesn't work. Try this one and then click on 'Bacchanals' at the top.
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/ex...out_titian.htm

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Very sorry that url doesn't work. Try this one and then click on 'Bacchanals' at the top.
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/ex...out_titian.htm

Very interesting site, Chaszz, thanks.

[spaceray]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
During the Renaissance Titian painted a series of three mythological pictures for the 'camerino d’alabastro' (a special room) of Alfonso d'Este, Duke of Ferrara. He also repainted the background of a fourth picture. These four masterpieces are now dispersed among three museums and have not been seen together since the 16th century.
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/ex...acchanals.htm. Be sure to click each picture twice to see it at largest scale.

For my concert, this room is recreated and the four paintings are reunited. Beethoven, who loved classical culture, is given time to look at the paintings at his leisure. In the evening a concert takes place in the Camerino with the pictures as background. attended by a select audience, the members of this forum. Beethoven improvises at length on the keyboard, then plays several of his sonatas. As an encore, at the urging of the audience, he improvises again.

Chazz, this dream concert was divine and the paintings superb,I loved the web site.
What do you think of the controversy(raised in a book by David Hockney) of the use by the Old Masters of the camera obscura to create the realistic.(An article appears on this subject at www.culturewars.org.uk/2000-02/art/candid_ camera.htm.)I would be interested to know what you think.

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by spaceray:
What do you think of the controversy(raised in a book by David Hockney) of the use by the Old Masters of the camera obscura to create the realistic.(An article appears on this subject at www.culturewars.org.uk/2000-02/art/candid_ camera.htm.)I would be interested to know what you think.

I haven't read Hockney's book but have read a few articles on it and am familiar with his main arguments. The article you mention seems to be having internet contention today, as I can't pull it up. So some of the themes and artists I mention below may not be the ones he stresses.

I think that Hockney is probably correct in that some artists, perhaps many, used the camera obscura and other technical aids to help them draw, and that this has largely been ignored or downplayed by art historians until now. But accurate drawing is only one tool of an artist, as perhaps mastery of notes, scales, keys, transposing, harmony, etc. are the tools of a composer. What does one then do with it? There are many good pianists but few great composers, just as there are many artists who can draw well but few great painters or sculptors.

Leaving modern art aside completely, among many old masters accurate representation of nature was only a beginning point for the personality and imagination of the creator. Some of these are the ancient Greek sculptors, Michelangelo, Titian, Giorgione, Bellini, Piero della Francesca, Rembrandt, Tintoretto, the Mannerists, El Greco, Hals, Watteau, Ingres, Delacroix, etc., etc.

Great artists who were much more faithful to everyday reality as we experience it, and who may have used the camera obscura and other technical aids extensively, include Vermeer, Holbein and some others. Even with these artists however, there are always very strong factors of personal expression and of design, selection, choice, light, color, etc. which lift them far above their thousands of capable or mediocre contemporaries.

So I am more or less saying, so what? From the standpoint of art history, very interesting. As a guide to creating or explaining creation, not that important. Fidelio with a different medicore libretto would probably still be Fidelio.