Dream concert

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
You might also sample the Parsifal Good Friday music on my new thread 'Some Wagner Tracks.' I labored at this comparing versions, ripping and combining tracks and uploading for several hours yesterday, and it is now buried down the list with zero replies. The travails of the true artiste will never cease! Wagner is still conspired against by cabals as in his lifetime! Would it be permissible to put up flashing banner ads here?

Well Parsifal is the one Wagner opera I actually possess in its entirety so I didn't download your file, particularly as it is over 10,000 Kbs and as I don't have Broadband it will take an age - almost as long as it took you to upload! Hopefully some other soul will appreciate your efforts and drag Wagner up from the depths!

Re. the banner adds I'll let Chris answer that one. What I can do is add a link to your favourite Wagner site on the links page if you let me know.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited January 10, 2003).]

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Peter:
Well Parsifal is the one Wagner opera I actually possess in its entirety so I didn't download your file, particularly as it is over 10,000 Kbs and as I don't have Broadband it will take an age - almost as long as it took you to upload! Hopefully some other soul will appreciate your efforts and drag Wagner up from the depths!

Re. the banner adds I'll let Chris answer that one. What I can do is add a link to your favourite Wagner site on the links page if you let me know.

No, I was just joking about the ads! As far as downloading, if you 'Copy' the URL with your mouse; and then open the file menu of a player like Real Player, Windows Media Player, or Quicktime, and then click on 'Open' or 'Open URL', you can paste the URL in and listen streaming immediately instead of waiting for a download. On Quicktime you must push the -> button to start it. I think I will add this advice to my Wagner thread right now, which will being it up to the top so someone might listen to it. I look forward to trying out on you some vocal excerpts from operas you don't own.

Quicktime is a good player, I recommend it for those who don't already have it, it can be downloaded from www.apple.com. It plays videos and displays stills also. Quite a reliable and versatile bit of software, no wonder Apple has a good reputation for graphics and media.




[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited January 10, 2003).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
No, I was just joking about the ads! As far as downloading, if you 'Copy' the URL with your mouse; and then open the file menu of a player like Real Player, Windows Media Player, or Quicktime, and then click on 'Open' or 'Open URL', you can paste the URL in and listen streaming immediately instead of waiting for a download.

This is good advice, you can set up your PC by default to play the mp3s via Windows media player in this manner, I never have to wait for a full download - it plays as the downloading is still going on.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[spaceray]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Picasso was perfectly awful as a husband and father. I think some great artists are compelled to be very selfish in order to nurture their creativity.

Compelled to be selfish perhaps but Picasso felt it necessary to be out right cruel to his lovers, wives and children He seemed to enjoy it.Artist or not a jerk is a jerk.

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Compelled to be selfish perhaps but Picasso felt it necessary to be out right cruel to his lovers, wives and children He seemed to enjoy it.Artist or not a jerk is a jerk.

A jerk person tends to be a jerk artist in my opinion. Consider the works of Picasso.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Compelled to be selfish perhaps but Picasso felt it necessary to be out right cruel to his lovers, wives and children He seemed to enjoy it.Artist or not a jerk is a jerk.

I think that too often we, as a society, tend to excuse behavior that we would never accept from a "regular" person because the originator is a great artist, athlete, whatever. OJ Simpson jumps to mind here. I any case, one can't necessarily condemn the works, but one can surely condemn the person. In a discussion group I used to be in there was a great debate about german conductors such as von Karajan who tolerated nazi principles in order to continue conducting (Wagner was brought up here too). It was never resolved after much discussion, nor do I think we would ever resolve it either. Either you are repelled by social injustice or you aren't. I don't listen to Wagner. 'Nuff said.
Regards, Gurn

[Peter]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
One can't necessarily condemn the works, but one can surely condemn the person.

I'm not into condemning anyone - condemn the sin not the sinner! No one is without fault which is why it is important to take things in context - Beethoven used to beat his nephew Karl, something that I find deplorable, but it was normal punishment for the time and Beethoven believed it was in the child's best interests - do we condemn him for it, no, but we rightly condemn the action. Wagner's views are abhorrent to me, but would they have attracted quite the same attention if it had not been for the events some 50 years AFTER his death?

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'Man know thyself'

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Peter:
I'm not into condemning anyone - condemn the sin not the sinner! No one is without fault which is why it is important to take things in context - Beethoven used to beat his nephew Karl, something that I find deplorable, but it was normal punishment for the time and Beethoven believed it was in the child's best interests - do we condemn him for it, no, but we rightly condemn the action. Wagner's views are abhorrent to me, but would they have attracted quite the same attention if it had not been for the events some 50 years AFTER his death?

Excellent post, Peter.

Yet one can wonder if the events 50 years after his death might not have happened if it weren't for him. The first time Hitler heard a Wagner performance, he became transfigured, stayed up all night and said he saw Germany's future. He is described as simply besotted with Wagner during his early Vienna days. He went to the opera almost every night to hear Wagner and saw 'Tristan und Isolde' something like 40 times in one year.

Of course it's only one of history's 'ifs', and as you know it doesn't stop me from listening to Wagner.

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited January 13, 2003).]

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Excellent post, Peter.

Yet one can wonder if the events 50 years after his death might not have happened if it weren't for him. The first time Hitler heard a Wagner performance, he became transfigured, stayed up all night and said he saw Germany's future. He is described as simply besotted with Wagner during his early Vienna days. He went to the opera almost every night to hear Wagner and saw 'Tristan und Isolde' something like 40 times in one year.

Of course it's only one of history's 'ifs', and as you know it doesn't stop me from listening to Wagner.

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited January 13, 2003).]

I recall some years ago being transfixed by Die Fliegende Hollander. But I didn't turn out to be a criminally insane national leader. (That's not to say I turned out all right, though, heh heh!) Wagner is not responsible for Hitler's actions, nor is he responsible for the decisions Hitler made. Each person is responsible for his own actions and decisions.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Sorrano:

I recall some years ago being transfixed by Die Fliegende Hollander. But I didn't turn out to be a criminally insane national leader. (That's not to say I turned out all right, though, heh heh!) Wagner is not responsible for Hitler's actions, nor is he responsible for the decisions Hitler made. Each person is responsible for his own actions and decisions.

I think you're pretty much on the beam but I also think that people do get influenced by the outside world be it music or violent movies or TV. Look at our video games we have out there now.

Joy

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Excellent post, Peter.

Yet one can wonder if the events 50 years after his death might not have happened if it weren't for him. The first time Hitler heard a Wagner performance, he became transfigured, stayed up all night and said he saw Germany's future. He is described as simply besotted with Wagner during his early Vienna days. He went to the opera almost every night to hear Wagner and saw 'Tristan und Isolde' something like 40 times in one year.

Of course it's only one of history's 'ifs', and as you know it doesn't stop me from listening to Wagner.

I think they would have happened just the same - Hitler chose to pervert the symbolism and Germanic myths represented in the Wagner operas, but those myths and ledgends existed long before Wagner.

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'Man know thyself'

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Joy:
I think you're pretty much on the beam but I also think that people do get influenced by the outside world be it music or violent movies or TV. Look at our video games we have out there now.

Joy

I must confess that I am a big fan of the more violent video games out there. YIKES!!! It's time to go listen to some Beethoven tracks and quell that demon within.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Sorrano:

I must confess that I am a big fan of the more violent video games out there. YIKES!!! It's time to go listen to some Beethoven tracks and quell that demon within.

So's my nephew!! He tries to get me to watch them too but I just can't stand watching such violence, ugh!!

Joy

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Peter:
I'm not into condemning anyone - condemn the sin not the sinner! No one is without fault which is why it is important to take things in context - Beethoven used to beat his nephew Karl, something that I find deplorable, but it was normal punishment for the time and Beethoven believed it was in the child's best interests - do we condemn him for it, no, but we rightly condemn the action. Wagner's views are abhorrent to me, but would they have attracted quite the same attention if it had not been for the events some 50 years AFTER his death?

Peter,
Yes, that's true, but I'm not saying that Wagner was responsible for Nazism, what I'm saying is that Wagner held personal views that were morally repugnant to me and to others (they were NOT the general view of the time, although fairly widespread). Wagner was a flaming anti-semite, and that is the only thing I have against him. Hitler was responsible for Hitler, and Wagner was responsible for Wagner. Neither of them has any appeal to me.
Regards, Gurn

[Gurn Blanston]

Oh, BTW, the Nazis for awfully fond of Beethoven too. I don't hold HIM responsible for the Holocaust either, and from what I know of the man he would have been every bit as repelled by their philosophy as I am. Hardly fits the Enlightenment concept of Elysium, does it? The difference between B and W is in their personal views, at least to me.
Regards, Gurn