Deafness

[John Rasmussen]

In Andrea's thread "Quote of the Day" someone brought up the composer's deafness and said they pitied the master at first, but not later. It was also stated that his deafness may have elevated the stature of his late works by allowing him to focus on his inner ears.

A man born deaf most likely could never have written or performed music at all. But LvB had already earned his musical chops when his hearing left him. Still, his deafness must indeed have spurred him to concentrate more on composing, since he could no longer perform. That is why his last works are sublime music and not mere intellectual or technical exercises.

So much great art comes from great pain.

[dice45]

must have been me

I said, his mind was no longer disturbed by the outer world so he could sit in his inner workd and create ....

No, i do not pity him anymore after i arrived at that insight.

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Greets,
Bernhard

[spaceray]

Originally posted by John Rasmussen:


A man born deaf most likely could never have written or performed music at all. But LvB had already earned his musical chops when his hearing left him. Still, his deafness must indeed have spurred him to concentrate more on composing, since he could no longer perform. That is why his last works are sublime music and not mere intellectual or technical exercises.

So much great art comes from great pain. [/B]

Do you think that Beethoven would have written music differently if he hadn't suffered from deafness,what might have he written if he had had perfect hearing all his life?

[~Immortal Beloved~]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Do you think that Beethoven would have written music differently if he hadn't suffered from deafness,what might have he written if he had had perfect hearing all his life?

Good question spaceray!

[spaceray]

I would like to have heard more Beethoven Operas and it seems a shame that there is only one perfectly gorgeous one to hear.

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Do you think that Beethoven would have written music differently if he hadn't suffered from deafness,what might have he written if he had had perfect hearing all his life?

Of course Beethoven was well experienced as a composer before he started going deaf. Considering the negative effects of his increasing deafness on his life in general, I guess he would have certainly composed more music had his hearing remained normal. Concerning the nature of these works I am sure they would be of the same standard as the ones he did compose. Beethoven's creative self-discipline and self-critisism being the halmarks responsible for the consistant quality of his output, upon which I suggest his deafness was not an influencing factor.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Rod:
Beethoven's creative self-discipline and self-critisism being the halmarks responsible for the consistant quality of his output...

How about inspiration? I would think many, many artists have self-discipline about their work, but relatively few have the kind of inspiration (called in former ages "divine") which makes for genius. To discipline oneself DURING inspiration must cut inspiration short; therefore it has to be, to some extent, a separate, later process. This is attested to with Beethoven by the voluminous reworkings and scratchings-out in his sketchbooks.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chaszz:

How about inspiration? I would think many, many artists have self-discipline about their work, but relatively few have the kind of inspiration (called in former ages "divine") which makes for genius. To discipline oneself DURING inspiration must cut inspiration short; therefore it has to be, to some extent, a separate, later process. This is attested to with Beethoven by the voluminous reworkings and scratchings-out in his sketchbooks.

[/B]

I have often thought this myself. Perhaps his deafness helped him to go on to compose greater and greater works as his deafness increased. Sometimes it takes a lamentable situation in your life to bring out what you are really made of. Might he have composed these great works without being deaf, we'll never know for sure.

Joy

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited December 19, 2002).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Joy:
I have often thought this myself. Perhaps his deafness helped him to go on to compose greater and greater works as his deafness increased. Sometimes it takes a lamentable situation in your life to bring out what you are really made of. Might he have composed these great works without being deaf, we'll never know for sure.

Joy

Don't forget he wasn't totally deaf until the last few years of his life, though of course his hearing was deteriorating for many years and the psychological effects of this were devastating for him, particularly up until 1802, when he finally seemed to accept the situation after the crisis of the Heiligenstadt testament. I suspect he probably would have developed along the same lines regardless of his hearing impairment which really was more of a social handicap than a musical one, with the exception of his performing career which had to be curtailed around 1814.

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'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

Originally posted by Joy:
Sometimes it takes a lamentable situation in your life to bring out what you are really made of.
Joy

Maybe but not always, people react in different ways - Rachmaninov and Tchaikovsky both went on to produce some of their finest music after emotional crisis, but Elgar virtually lost all will to compose after the death of his wife. Oscar Wilde was destroyed by his imprisonment though he did manage to produce his finest poem out of the experience but nothing else.

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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:
Don't forget he wasn't totally deaf until the last few years of his life, though of course his hearing was deteriorating for many years and the psychological effects of this were devastating for him, particularly up until 1802, when he finally seemed to accept the situation after the crisis of the Heiligenstadt testament. I suspect he probably would have developed along the same lines regardless of his hearing impairment which really was more of a social handicap than a musical one, with the exception of his performing career which had to be curtailed around 1814.

I hear what you're saying but I still think the psychological impact his growing deafness and knowing that at sometime he would be totally deaf must have been devasting for him. He might have 'accepted' this handicap around 1802 but there were probably innumerous times he did not accept it and fought it. Would we have the powerful songs he composed during his Heroic period, the 5th, etc. without his increasing deafness and psychological stress, maybe not, but, that might have spurred him on to bigger and greater things.

Joy

[Peter]

Originally posted by Joy:
I hear what you're saying but I still think the psychological impact his growing deafness and knowing that at sometime he would be totally deaf must have been devasting for him. He might have 'accepted' this handicap around 1802 but there were probably innumerous times he did not accept it and fought it. Would we have the powerful songs he composed during his Heroic period, the 5th, etc. without his increasing deafness and psychological stress, maybe not, but, that might have spurred him on to bigger and greater things.

Joy

Well would we have had them if it hadn't been for the French Revolution? Would we have had the Eroica without Napoleon? So many factors contribute to our lives that I think it virtually impossible to single one out and say ah that is why he was so great! Remember that whilst he was going through his greatest despair in 1802 he produced the sunny 2nd Symphony! I suggest that it took certain situations to bring out what was already there, after all, plenty of people lived through those times and plenty of people were deaf or suffering from far worse conditions but they were not all great artists. Beethoven said as much in the Heiligenstadt testament 'it seemed impossible to leave the world until I had produced all that I felt called upon me to produce'



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'Man know thyself'

[John Rasmussen]

Ultimately, what made Beethoven great was that he rose above his problems, of which his deafness is only the most obvious.

[Joy]

Originally posted by John Rasmussen:
Ultimately, what made Beethoven great was that he rose above his problems, of which his deafness is only the most obvious.

That's my point exactly!

Joy