Mozart's music

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
If one person thinks a melody is beautiful and full of life, and another cannot hear anything much in it, no analysis of form and content will clarify this mystery. And this emotional reaction is the reason people bother to listen to music.

And what to you is romantic drivel may be the first person attempting to describe the ineffable feelings that the music gives him, in the only way he knows how or can attempt. Surely saying that 'the change in the second development section, where the subdominant is used instead of the relative minor,
is very original', communicates to the other person an even worse idea of what the listener is experiencing.

My point was that no attempt should be made to try and explain in any detail the aesthetic qualities of the piece, other than its general form and nature. People too often attempt to ascribe a 'programme' or hidden meaning to an instrumental piece. This is not to be recommended. By applying romantic drivel you take away the music's 'independance' as pure music.



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:
Explain why so much Beethoven is never performed or rarely even recorded, when so much other drivel from the world of classical music is? There is a critical lack of discernment from those concerned with this genre of music. As far as I am concerned a considerable proportion of this music is barely worth the paper its written on.

Popularity and greatness do NOT go hand in hand. How many recordings of the "Moonlight" Sonata are you going to see as opposed to the "Hammerklavier"? Or "Fur Elise" as to the Diabelli Variations. The general populace have a far greater want of general sweetness (marshmallows) than they do of the meat and potatoes. It is beyond me that people prefer Britney Spears to Beethoven's String Quartets.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Chaszz:

And what to you is romantic drivel may be the first person attempting to describe the ineffable feelings that the music gives him, in the only way he knows how or can attempt. Surely saying that 'the change in the second development section, where the subdominant is used instead of the relative minor,
is very original', communicates to the other person an even worse idea of what the listener is experiencing.

And there are those who delight in that very 'original' treatment of materials sometimes even more so than the overall sound of the composition. I myself enjoy following the various developmental techniques that composers employ to enhance their music. It is as fascinating to me as any other method of enjoyment I could utilize.

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Sorrano:

Popularity and greatness do NOT go hand in hand. How many recordings of the "Moonlight" Sonata are you going to see as opposed to the "Hammerklavier"? Or "Fur Elise" as to the Diabelli Variations. The general populace have a far greater want of general sweetness (marshmallows) than they do of the meat and potatoes. It is beyond me that people prefer Britney Spears to Beethoven's String Quartets.

Very true, but is the Moonlight Sonata a good example? Forget the sweet first movement; the third movement, with its headlong rhythm and complex cascades of chords and notes, is to me one of the most astonishing things Beethoven ever wrote. I know this isn't why the sonata is so popular, but still, how great!

[SR]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
If one person thinks a melody is beautiful and full of life, and another cannot hear anything much in it, no analysis of form and content will clarify this mystery. And this emotional reaction is the reason people bother to listen to music.

Very true. I also find my frame of mind at any given time varies. Some times I want Beethoven, sometimes I want Mozart. Sometimes I want Stravinsky.

Many times I have heard music that did not grab me and I have dismissed it as not top quality work. On a later hearing when my mood is different or more receptive I find the very same "cold" piece to be full of beauty. I am astonished that I could have not noticed the first time. Nothing changed but me.


Steve

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by SR:
Very true. I also find my frame of mind at any given time varies. Some times I want Beethoven, sometimes I want Mozart. Sometimes I want Stravinsky.

Many times I have heard music that did not grab me and I have dismissed it as not top quality work. On a later hearing when my mood is different or more receptive I find the very same "cold" piece to be full of beauty. I am astonished that I could have not noticed the first time. Nothing changed but me.


Steve

This is very well said and true.

It reminds of a scene in the novel 'The Last Gentleman' by Walker Percy. A man is in a museum and can feel nothing for the artworks. Suddenly a huge skylight crashes to the floor and shatters. The man is surprised and unhurt, and then further surprised to find that the Velazquez paintings have suddenly come alive for him and are beautiful.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Very true, but is the Moonlight Sonata a good example? Forget the sweet first movement; the third movement, with its headlong rhythm and complex cascades of chords and notes, is to me one of the most astonishing things Beethoven ever wrote. I know this isn't why the sonata is so popular, but still, how great!

So true. I'm lucky that my classical station always plays all the movements in a piece and never plays just one. I know some radio stations that have a habit of playing one movement alone all the time. I bet many people know The Moonlight first movement but would never recognize the third movement or even know that it is part of The Moonlight. I agree with you about the third movement, an absolutely brillant piece.

[Joy]

Originally posted by SR:

Many times I have heard music that did not grab me and I have dismissed it as not top quality work. On a later hearing when my mood is different or more receptive I find the very same "cold" piece to be full of beauty. I am astonished that I could have not noticed the first time. Nothing changed but me.

Steve

[/B]

So true. That's happened to me on many occasions. It has to be the mood we are in at the time.

Joy

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited October 05, 2002).]

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Very true, but is the Moonlight Sonata a good example? Forget the sweet first movement; the third movement, with its headlong rhythm and complex cascades of chords and notes, is to me one of the most astonishing things Beethoven ever wrote. I know this isn't why the sonata is so popular, but still, how great!

I am agreed with you here. My reference to the "Moonlight" Sonata should, of course, been restricted to the 1st movement. While I consider it nice I enjoy more many of the other slow movements of Beethoven's that are more obscure and shouldn't be.

[John Rasmussen]

Originally posted by SR:
Really a pointless discussion. Both composers were great masters and if you find B or M more appealing to you fine, but don't get your opinion confused with fact. Both men are doubtless in the top 5, that is all that matters to me. BTW which is the better color yellow or blue ?

Steve

Green!

At this level, comparing composers has got to be entirely a matter of preference, like Karajan to Solti, or chateaubriand to filet mignon, or Steinway to Boesendorfer.

[This message has been edited by John Rasmussen (edited October 06, 2002).]