FOUR Rejections in B's 9th Symphony??? Help!

[euphony131]

Hi all,

I'm perplexed. I know the fourth movement of B's 9th Symphony starts with cellos and double-basses refusing the sounds from the three prior movements. However, I detect FOUR refusals. The last effort sounds like a weak attempt at the the Ode to Joy Theme. It's like the strings, tired of being rejected by the cellos and double-basses, try for something entirely new. But this also ends up getting shot down. Is this correct? If so, why is it never discussed by critics -- this particular rejection? I've only read how "previous" sounds are brought back and refused, nothing about this.

[Peter]

First of all what a highly original passage this is - I know of no previous Symphony that presents the themes from earlier movements. Yes, during this passage there is also a hint of the famous theme to come - it is in the woodwind (not strings). I think the tone of the recitative changes after that (it is much more positive and less threatening), it interrupts the theme yes, but with acceptance not refusal. It's as though the cellos and bass are saying, 'yes that's what we want' - then of course it is the cellos and bass that first present the theme in its entirety.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 11-17-2000).]

[euphony131]

Thank you so much Peter!