Rare page - Serenade for Flute, Violin and Viola

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rod:

Sorry, but I cannot stomach a place that has such little respect for the Composer it claims to promote.

[/B]

I have to agree with you there, of course.

Joy

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Rod, you're creating havoc all over the internet, aren't you?! You better stay here where we understand you!

Joy

Lucky for you guys that I do!

I never start a fight Joy, I just finish them!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited September 03, 2002).]

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
Well, if they'ed just accepted they were wrong and agreed with me there would have been no hassle. You have learned this lesson yourself Chris haven't you.

My collection of Beethoven recordings, played on glorious modern instruments, would seem to indicate otherwise.

A comment I made that actually resulted in a few people leaving the Handel forum was in response to a request for a recommended recording of Semele, to which I responded "Firstly, as with all Handel music, you should only consider the authentic instrument alternatives...". Upon these simple words I was inundated with abuse!! That place is really in the musical dark ages, all crusty types. It is only due to the lack of such forums that I hung around to witness my inevitable demise.

Sorry, but I cannot stomach a place that has such little respect for the Composer it claims to promote.

Well, as anyone who frequents message boards on the Internet knows, most of them are just not very good. It seems the people that post on them more often choose to get upset instead of getting involved in a good debate on the point.

But if you think classical music forums are bad, you should try hanging around forums that deal with computer issues. You will not find a bigger cesspool of ignorance anywhere on the Internet. I usually wind up debating some highschooler who has read about two pages on a given issue. Since I have spent years of my life studying these things, they obviously no chance of winning the debate, and it usually ends with them posting "U R GAY" and then ignoring me.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited September 03, 2002).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
It seems the people that post on them more often choose to get upset instead of getting involved in a good debate on the point.

This was certainly the case at the Handel forum. I though I was being well behaved!

Originally posted by Chris:
..and it usually ends with them posting "U R GAY"

This is the most popular remark posted at the official AC/DC message board.

PS I regard your continued silence over my mp3s of the Pathetique played on a Graf as you having learned your lesson!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited September 03, 2002).]

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
PS I regard your continued silence over my mp3s of the Pathetique played on a Graf as you having learned your lesson!

Silence? I thought I posted a complete review of that. I know for a fact I typed it up.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Silence? I thought I posted a complete review of that. I know for a fact I typed it up.

Well, I know for a fact I for one haven't seen nor read it here. Or Peter's assessment either! Mind you, I wasn't expecting an essay, just a humble confession that the Graf is a better option for the music than anything we have today. Remember it is more the instrument's potential I am concered with, not particularly the performer/ance (though in this respect these mp3s are still very good).

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited September 04, 2002).]

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
Well, I know for a fact I for one haven't seen nor read it here. Or Peter's assessment either! Mind you, I wasn't expecting an essay, just a humble confession that the Graf is a better option for the music than anything we have today. Remember it is more the instrument's potential I am concered with, not particularly the performer/ance (though in this respect these mp3s are still very good).

Well, if that was what you were hoping for, you're not going to get it with those mp3's. I thought they were awful. In fact, I'm not sure why you chose those recordings to make your argument. I have heard several period instrument recordings of that piece that were OK (certainly better than that). Though I have heard none that could match it played (well) on a modern piano, they were at least well-played and sounded fairly good. This recording that you put up neither was well-played nor sounded good (sound of the instrument, I mean). I sounded to me like someone had just pushed the instument out of a 5th floor window.

I found this strange, since I usually find at least something to enjoy about the files you post. Indeed, the Rare Page files are usually excellent, even if period instruments are used. But this recording? I'm certain it is the worst thing I have ever heard that you posted. I cannot fathom why this is your recording of choice for this piece. Why do you choose it over the Badura-Skoda recording?

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Well, if that was what you were hoping for, you're not going to get it with those mp3's. I thought they were awful. In fact, I'm not sure why you chose those recordings to make your argument. I have heard several period instrument recordings of that piece that were OK (certainly better than that). Though I have heard none that could match it played (well) on a modern piano, they were at least well-played and sounded fairly good. This recording that you put up neither was well-played nor sounded good (sound of the instrument, I mean). I sounded to me like someone had just pushed the instument out of a 5th floor window.

I found this strange, since I usually find at least something to enjoy about the files you post. Indeed, the Rare Page files are usually excellent, even if period instruments are used. But this recording? I'm certain it is the worst thing I have ever heard that you posted. I cannot fathom why this is your recording of choice for this piece. Why do you choose it over the Badura-Skoda recording?

Well the instrument is virually identical physically and sonically to Badura Skodas Graf, only the accoustic setting is different. However in B-S's recording he uses a 5 octave Walter, but I would say the performance is more typically underplayed than van Immerseels so I chose the latter. This Graf is also the very same instrument used in the recording of the Kreutzer mp3 i uploaded some time ago, played also by van Immerseel, to universal praise!!

I don't know what your benchmark is, but would say with out exception the various modern renditions I have heard have sounded quite tame compared to the example in question.

Considering all this I can't really believe your response on this occasion is truely sincere! You're surely just winding me up Chris!!??

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
Considering all this I can't really believe your response on this occasion is truely sincere! You're surely just winding me up Chris!!??

No, I am being quite sincere. I don't know why this recording seemed so bad to me - it sounds like it should work on paper (van Immerseel is an excellent pianist in my opinion - was thinking about getting his Mozart piano concerto set recently), but it didn't come out well for some reason.

Now, I don't have these mp3s anymore (after listening to them, I promptly deleted them from my hard drive, formatted the hard drive six times, and threw some holy water on it just to be sure all traces of them were gone forever), so I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I seem to remember that recording to be very "tame." It seemed to me that tempos were way too slow in some parts (by your standards, at least). It's possible that I may be thinking of a different piece, though.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited September 05, 2002).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Well, I know for a fact I for one haven't seen nor read it here. Or Peter's assessment either!

You'll recall that this was during the forum's troubles.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
No, I am being quite sincere. I don't know why this recording seemed so bad to me - it sounds like it should work on paper (van Immerseel is an excellent pianist in my opinion - was thinking about getting his Mozart piano concerto set recently), but it didn't come out well for some reason.

I never listened to these mp3s themselves but usually they come out good. In the original recording the sound is vivid and atmospheric, better than the norm in fact. Unless something went wrong with the conversion to mp3 I suggest you upgrade you PCs sound system! The recording level is rather low, so you perhaps should have just turned it up a bit!

Originally posted by Chris:

Now, I don't have these mp3s anymore (after listening to them, I promptly deleted them from my hard drive, formatted the hard drive six times, and threw some holy water on it just to be sure all traces of them were gone forever), so I may be remembering this incorrectly, but I seem to remember that recording to be very "tame." It seemed to me that tempos were way too slow in some parts (by your standards, at least). It's possible that I may be thinking of a different piece, though.

I really think you made a mistake deleting them Chris, but never mind. The tempos I can live with easily, they are certainly not unusual by contemporary standards. There is still plenty of excitement where its needed. But bear in mind it was the piano that was my main concern.

I was considering your own benchmarks, and to date I think your mp3s of op11 is all we've had to sample. Upon hearing this I recall thinking 'yes, typical run of the mill, staid, safe stuff'. I confess I deleted it after a while, but I've got at least two similarly crusty interpretations at home!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
You'll recall that this was during the forum's troubles.

OK. However I'm having trouble getting your assessment Peter! Did you down load them? Did you have to re-format your hard drive?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
OK. However I'm having trouble getting your assessment Peter! Did you down load them? Did you have to re-format your hard drive?

I did download them and I'm pretty sure I said something about them on the temp forum. They haven't been deleted - I didn't feel quite the same need as Chris to purge my hard drive of them! I am very very busy at the moment with all sorts of commitments so it'll be a while before I can review them again.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
I never listened to these mp3s themselves but usually they come out good. In the original recording the sound is vivid and atmospheric, better than the norm in fact. Unless something went wrong with the conversion to mp3 I suggest you upgrade you PCs sound system! The recording level is rather low, so you perhaps should have just turned it up a bit!

Beats me. But it's not my PC. My violin may not be that great, and my piano sure isn't the best, but my PC is smokin'.

I was considering your own benchmarks, and to date I think your mp3s of op11 is all we've had to sample. Upon hearing this I recall thinking 'yes, typical run of the mill, staid, safe stuff'. I confess I deleted it after a while, but I've got at least two similarly crusty interpretations at home!

The reason I posted those in the first place was to help someone out who needed to hear them for a paper or something by a specific date. I like that Op. 11, but I certainly wouldn't say it was the jewel of my collection. I'm sure I wouldn't have much to interest you. My Beethoven collection is 100% modern instruments. If this were the Mozart Reference Site, I might have something you'd find interesting (my Mozart collection is about 50/50 modern/period and the period ones have some very interesting things going on), but it isn't, and you're not much of a Mozart lover anyway.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited September 09, 2002).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
If this were the Mozart Reference Site, I might have something you'd find interesting (my Mozart collection is about 50/50 modern/period and the period ones have some very interesting things going on), but it isn't, and you're not much of a Mozart lover anyway.

I have a few Mozart recordings, but the only one on period instruments is the quintet upon which Beethoven's quintet op16 is apparently modeled. I can tell you with these two quintets it is the Beethoven that is transformed the most on period instruments, (but of course this may be due to the many crusty interpretations of op16 that we have been plagued with for years), and by comparison M's effort seems rather ordinary - the opposite of popular critical opinion these days.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin