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**Rod** · 08-13-2002, 04:11 PM

I have thought along similar lines Heidi. We know how fussy Beethoven was about the actions of his pianos, it seems he liked a very light and fluid action. Also he had a taste for the keyboard shifting pedal with produced extremely delicate and subtle effects on the pianos of the time - these are not things you would normally associate with a man of B's stocky build and thick powerful fingers.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

**PDG** · 08-13-2002, 04:44 PM

With such an overwhelmingly brilliant musical mind, I don't find it surprising that this (what must have been) permanent internal distraction made him rather impervious to the niceties and manners of everyday life.

**Peter** · 08-13-2002, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by PDG:
With such an overwhelmingly brilliant musical mind, I don't find it surprising that this (what must have been) permanent internal distraction made him rather impervious to the niceties and manners of everyday life.

I don't think a highly creative mind is necessarily disorderly and clumsy - it was simply his personality. There are plenty of clumsy people and they're not all geniuses!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited August 13, 2002).]

**PDG** · 08-14-2002, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by Peter:
I don't think a highly creative mind is necessarily disorderly and clumsy - it was simply his personality. There are plenty of clumsy people and they're not all geniuses!

Of course Beethoven's mind was not disorderly or clumsy(!), but being as pre-occupied as he must have been certainly must have contributed to his perceived forgetfulness and general tardiness.

**Zon** · 08-16-2002, 07:32 AM

As a musician myself, I can say that these traits are rather trivial and unconsequential to music, ESPECIALLY IN Bs CASE!!
When you can achieve the state of mind, 'the zone' as some call it, which allows a persons soul to take over physical limitations to create (perform) music, those things dont matter.

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"To play without passion is inexcusable!" - Ludwig van Beethoven

**heidi** · 08-16-2002, 08:23 PM

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I am not a musician (well not a very good one), I coach and judge womens gymnastics over here in the States. Grace and coordination are two assets I notice about someone right away, but then so are power and strength which I know Beethoven possessed both physically and mentally. All the accounts I read that give a physical discription of him state he was very well built. Short but muscular. His mind on the other hand, was more poweful than I can ever imagine.

**PDG** · 08-16-2002, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by heidi:
I coach and judge womens gymnastics over here in the States. Grace and coordination are two assets I notice about someone right away.......

I forgot about these two assets in women.

**~Immortal Beloved~** · 08-18-2002, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by heidi:
I know Beethoven possessed both physically and mentally. All the accounts I read that give a physical discription of him state he was very well built. Short but muscular. His mind on the other hand, was more poweful than I can ever imagine.

I agree of you said on beethoven right there.

**Suzie** · 09-02-2002, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by heidi:
Hello Beethoven fans! I'm new to this forum but have been reading and watching for about a month. I haven't jumped in on any topics yet but maybe you can think about this one. I love listen to and read about B. I think he was one of the most great-hearted souls that ever lived. I'm very puzzeled about one thing that sticks with me when I read or do resaerch on him. Beethoven was not a very graceful being. In fact I have come across several stories on how 'clumsly' he could be, especially with his hands. Always knocking something over, having difficulty tieing his neckties and buttoning buttons, and shaving . So how is it someone like this could play piano so amaziningly ( the last movement of the 'Moonlight Sonata', and other pieces)? It just makes me think. Has anyone else ever thought about this too?

I read somewhere he could be quite a sloppy pianist also.

**Peter** · 09-02-2002, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Suzie:
I read somewhere he could be quite a sloppy pianist also.

Of course owing to his deafness his piano playing deteriorated to the point where public performance was out of the question - I don't know of any deaf virtuoso pianists today do you? His last known public appearance as a pianist was I think playing the Archduke trio - needless to say it was not a success. This is of course why he never performed the Emperor concerto.

P.S. Nice to hear from you again Suzie!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited September 02, 2002).]

**Suzie** · 09-02-2002, 11:28 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter:
[B] Of course owing to his deafness his piano playing deteriorated to the point where public performance was out of the question - I don't know of any deaf virtuoso pianists today do you? His last known public appearance as a pianist was I think playing the Archduke trio - needless to say it was not a success. This is of course why he never performed the Emperor concerto.

P.S. Nice to hear from you again Suzie!

Thank you Peter. It's nice to be heard. The site looks great.

**Rod** · 09-03-2002, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Suzie:
I read somewhere he could be quite a sloppy pianist also.

Well hello dolly...! I though you may have got lost in the desert or something.

Beethoven was accused of lacking clarity, but I suspect this may have been a reflection of his conscious over-use of the pedal (by the standards of the day) and avoidance of Mozartian 'chopiness', that may have not been to the taste of some.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

**Suzie** · 09-03-2002, 02:46 AM

Originally posted by Rod:
Well hello dolly...! I though you may have got lost in the desert or something.

Beethoven was accused of lacking clarity, but I suspect this may have been a reflection of his conscious over-use of the pedal (by the standards of the day) and avoidance of Mozartian 'chopiness', that may have not been to the taste of some.

Well hello Noble Rod. I was lost in the desert. Probably still am. Interesting about the pedal business. Thank you.

Yours,
Suz

**Rod** · 09-03-2002, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Suzie:
Well hello Noble Rod. I was lost in the desert. Probably still am. Interesting about the pedal business. Thank you.

Yours,
Suz

Well, I hope you find your way out of the Desert soon. I was thinking about more modern interpretations I've heard over the years and I came to the conclusion that performers probably still under-use the pedal for Beethoven, the emphasis is still too much on clarity and not the drama. The result ironically is that many of these modern performances I've heard still sound too 'choppy' or 'fussy'. I presume the huge tone of the modern piano bares part of the responsibility for this, ie there is a constant requirement to control it.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited September 03, 2002).]

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