Rare Page - An die Hoffnung Op94

[Peter]

Now available to members on the rare page -
www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/rare.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

I'll start by saying that somewhere in this recording is a great song. I don't like the baritone's treatment of it and have heard much better versions, but never mind, this is the only recording I have of it. Of course others may differ in this opinion, Fischer-Dieskau has a lot of fans! I think the poem is excellent and it will be easy for readers to see its appeal to a character like Beethoven. The second setting is a far more developed effort than the first, with many contrasts (the first being more conventional in form, though still a work of quality and perhaps could be said to be a more spontaneous work than the second).


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited July 23, 2002).]

[chopithoven]

The quality of the voice of Fischer-Dieskau is affected by the bitrate of the file, for in some moments it sounds as if Dietrich were singing inside a glass-It would be optimal to have mp3s@128kbps!

[Chris]

I'm not quite sure what to say about it - got to listen to it a few more times, maybe.

[Peter]

I prefer my version with Stephen Genz and Richard Vignoles and recommend their CD on Hyperion which features a selection of some of the best songs including the Gellert and An Die Ferne Geliebte.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
The quality of the voice of Fischer-Dieskau is affected by the bitrate of the file, for in some moments it sounds as if Dietrich were singing inside a glass-It would be optimal to have mp3s@128kbps!

The file is at moderate resolution to keep the size to a manageable level for ease of downloading. You can't have everything with mp3s. However I'm listening to the mp3 link now and sounds near enough like the original, at least on my system. I use the same resolution for all the downloads.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
I'm not quite sure what to say about it - got to listen to it a few more times, maybe.

You do that. I realised this was a top quality piece when this was the only version I had heard of it, despite D-F's typically over-the-top singing. But if it still does not meet your taste I be interested to know your 'benchmark' piece for a song of this kind.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
The quality of the voice of Fischer-Dieskau is affected by the bitrate of the file, for in some moments it sounds as if Dietrich were singing inside a glass-It would be optimal to have mp3s@128kbps!

Quite frankly I think the sound quality of the mp3s in general is perfectly acceptable -a higher resolution is not justified when the slight improvement in quality is balanced against the horrendous download time - try getting hold of the cd I recommended if you want a first class performance of this work.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
You do that. I realised this was a top quality piece when this was the only version I had heard of it, despite D-F's typically over-the-top singing. But if it still does not meet your taste I be interested to know your 'benchmark' piece for a song of this kind.

It's not that the quality is not up to usual Beethoven standards, but I'm just not sure what else to say about it. I do think, though, that the quality of the recording is perfectly fine. If you guys aren't satisfied with it, then go buy the CD! (Do that anyway )

[Peter]

The song really is very fine - the only criticism I've come across of it is the repetition of the first stanza at the end. Harmonically it is quite daring -recitative:Bb Minor / 1st stanza:G / 2nd Stanza:Eb / 3rd Stanza - D minor / short adagio in B major, C major / repeat of first stanza:G. Beethoven's setting of the poem is very sensitive to the text.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited July 25, 2002).]

[PDG]

I knew this song (and this recording) anyway, but I'd like to hear the first setting - Op.32 - to compare LvB's treatment of the text, considering, presumably, he felt more literally enlightened by the time he set Op.94.

I do have a problem with LvB's vocal writing. His instrumental music is peerless, but somehow, allowing the human voice to define the musical flow, detracts from the music. If only he weren't such a phenomenal composer!

Also, I don't care much for the romantic ramblings of poets. Poets and composers? - I know which group I admire the most.

Final point: German ain't the nicest language to hear sung; sincerely meant this recording may be, but I'll always prefer LvB's more tuneful efforts, namely: Adelaide; Zartliche Liebe; Der KuB(The Kiss). And his pianistic gems, such as Maigesang; Sehnsucht; Es War Einmal Ein Konig.



[This message has been edited by PDG (edited July 25, 2002).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:

I do have a problem with LvB's vocal writing. His instrumental music is peerless, but somehow, allowing the human voice to define the musical flow, detracts from the music. If only he weren't such a phenomenal composer!

[This message has been edited by PDG (edited July 25, 2002).]

I suggest the only problem with B's style of vocal composition is that he requires the vocalist to think. A difficult task these days at least!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rod:
I suggest the only problem with B's style of vocal composition is that he requires the vocalist to think. A difficult task these days at least!

You can say that again!

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I suggest the only problem with B's style of vocal composition is that he requires the vocalist to think. A difficult task these days at least!

What is often missed when it comes to Lieder is the fact that B was the pioneer in this field - many of his songs were written before Schubert was born and over half before Schubert wrote his first known songs in 1811. Curious then that some of B's songs are occasionally referred to as 'Schubertian' (also the 2nd movement of the sonata Op.90), when no influence from Franz S was possible. B's lieder are of uneven quality, but the best of them are first class such as Op.94, Abendlied, the Reissig version of Sensucht, Wonne der Wemuth Op.83 and the Gellert songs.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
...B's lieder are of uneven quality, but the best of them are first class such as Op.94, Abendlied, the Reissig version of Sensucht, Wonne der Wemuth Op.83 and the Gellert songs.

I would say 'uneven quality' is a little harsh considering the intended purpose of the less significant numbers. However, you have missed out 'Kenst du das Land?' in your list. This is a class piece too (and will be on the rare page in due course).

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited July 26, 2002).]