Beethoven 's settings of twelve Irish folksongs

[spaceray]

I am from Victoria ,BC ,Canada and my city has one store that sells sheet music ,they could not locate this even with Peter's Opus and WoO numbers supplied and tell me that this music doesn't exist.I am at a loss for how to go about finding it,can you suggest a solution?

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
I am from Victoria ,BC ,Canada and my city has one store that sells sheet music ,they could not locate this even with Peter's Opus and WoO numbers supplied and tell me that this music doesn't exist.I am at a loss for how to go about finding it,can you suggest a solution?

It must exist because these days there are quite a few recordings of these works, and they have been performed live as well. So somewhere you must be able to aquire a score.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[spaceray]

Yes,but where?
Could the WoO no.154 be incorrect?
Is there a complete works of LVB that might include this?
I've also explored sheet music web sites and have had no luck at all.Only the most popular of Beethovens works seem available on the web.Surely this music is not obscure.What gives?

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Yes,but where?
Could the WoO no.154 be incorrect?
Is there a complete works of LVB that might include this?
I've also explored sheet music web sites and have had no luck at all.Only the most popular of Beethovens works seem available on the web.Surely this music is not obscure.What gives?

WoO154 is correct. B arranged a few sets of folksongs - check the compositions page at this site for more WoO and Op. numbers for this type of music (such as WoO153, WoO157, Op108). It could not really be called the 'complete works' if these songs were ommitted.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[spaceray]

Yes but is there such a thing as the complete works of LVB?Published by whom and available where?
I 've even tried E bay !!!!!
All I want is this one piece WoO 154,but am more than willing to buy any volume that contains this work.
I even asked my piano teacher if he would transcribe it for me.
'who wrote it 'he asked
'Beethoven'I reply
"Yikes" said he.

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Yes but is there such a thing as the complete works of LVB?Published by whom and available where?
I 've even tried E bay !!!!!
All I want is this one piece WoO 154,but am more than willing to buy any volume that contains this work.
I even asked my piano teacher if he would transcribe it for me.
'who wrote it 'he asked
'Beethoven'I reply
"Yikes" said he.

WoO154 is not a single work but a collection of pieces. Thus the first song would be WoO154 No.1 for example. These pieces were totally obscure until relatively recently so it does not surprise me you can't find the sheet music. I've probably got a recording or two from this set so I could provide an mp3 for you to present to your piano teacher. Is there one song in particular you are interested in? These songs are not technically all that difficult.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited July 20, 2002).]

[spaceray]

Your very kind to try to help me I have a recording of the Trio Fontenay with Wolfgang Holzmair singing but not the song I am looking for 'oh would I were but that sweet linnet'which I believe is one of the Twelve Irish Folksongs,butI have now fallen in love with 'The Elfin Fairies'and ' The Deserter'.Upon close inspection the liner notes talk about Barry Cooper's book Beethoven's Folksong Settings.Oxford:Clarendon Press,1994.But this would not be a score? Would it?

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Your very kind to try to help me I have a recording of the Trio Fontenay with Wolfgang Holzmair singing but not the song I am looking for 'oh would I were but that sweet linnet'which I believe is one of the Twelve Irish Folksongs,butI have now fallen in love with 'The Elfin Fairies'and ' The Deserter'.Upon close inspection the liner notes talk about Barry Cooper's book Beethoven's Folksong Settings.Oxford:Clarendon Press,1994.But this would not be a score? Would it?

I'll check out my stuff for these songs. I don't know if Coopers book includes the scores.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[spaceray]

I did read elsewhere in this General Discussion a comment suggesting that operatic sopranos should not sing this music ,but at the time I never thought to ask why the writer objected.I love an old record of Victoria de los Angeles singing these songs,but long since moved away from vinyl and never found this recording on CD.
You mentioned that there were several recordings of the Folksongs,I'm curious to know what they are.
I tried to get help at the University of Victoria Music School,but you must be a student to get anywhere near the music library,I am not .
But I envision myself hanging around the door to find a student who might look for the songs for me,kind of like an underage kid trying to buy a case of beer.Pathetic isn't it,to be so in love.

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
I did read elsewhere in this General Discussion a comment suggesting that operatic sopranos should not sing this music ,but at the time I never thought to ask why the writer objected.I love an old record of Victoria de los Angeles singing these songs,but long since moved away from vinyl and never found this recording on CD.
You mentioned that there were several recordings of the Folksongs,I'm curious to know what they are.
I tried to get help at the University of Victoria Music School,but you must be a student to get anywhere near the music library,I am not .
But I envision myself hanging around the door to find a student who might look for the songs for me,kind of like an underage kid trying to buy a case of beer.Pathetic isn't it,to be so in love.

I think the writer meant
the songs require a fairly simple manner of singing, they don't need the bombast of Romantic Grand Opera!

We have had some of the arrangements at the 'rare page' at this site. Some more are in the current list. I can give you the details of the 5 recordings I have. But also Deutche Grammophon have a 7 disk boxed set of them as part of their 'complete' Beethoven works edition.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[spaceray]

I'm very glad to hear that this music might suit my voice,not a bombastic grand opera sound.I'm an alto and love to sing Handel Purcell and Bach,but I'm not a musician I learn all music by ear untill very recently,when my friend persuaded me to start learning to sightsing and I began to take piano lessons a few months ago.Yesterday I bought a piano,a 1910 Mendelsson of Toronto Upright .The owner was moving and selling her house ,I played all the keys and took it apart to see if I could detect any cracks or damage ,funny to see I think as I have no knowledge what so ever of
musicial instruments of any description.The movers brings it tomorrow and after I have it tuned I will see if I can hunt and peck out the melody of 'Oh would I were but that sweet Linnet'from my memory of it. I asked the seller if she played ,no she told me it had been her Grandfathers ,she only knew one tune and she sat down and played 'Fur Elise'

[Joy]

Originally posted by spaceray:
I'm very glad to hear that this music might suit my voice,not a bombastic grand opera sound.I'm an alto and love to sing Handel Purcell and Bach,but I'm not a musician I learn all music by ear untill very recently,when my friend persuaded me to start learning to sightsing and I began to take piano lessons a few months ago.Yesterday I bought a piano,a 1910 Mendelsson of Toronto Upright .The owner was moving and selling her house ,I played all the keys and took it apart to see if I could detect any cracks or damage ,funny to see I think as I have no knowledge what so ever of
musicial instruments of any description.The movers brings it tomorrow and after I have it tuned I will see if I can hunt and peck out the melody of 'Oh would I were but that sweet Linnet'from my memory of it. I asked the seller if she played ,no she told me it had been her Grandfathers ,she only knew one tune and she sat down and played 'Fur Elise'

Your situation sounded similiar to mine when I purchased my antique 1895 upright piano a few years ago. I also purchased it from a person who was moving and he did not play either and asked me to play something so I played for him 'Fur Elise' as that is the only Beethoven piece I play by memory.

[Roehre]

I'll check out my stuff for these songs. I don't know if Coopers book includes the scores.

Cooper's book is a real treasur trove for those interested in these songs, the circumstances in which Beethoven arranged and Thomson did (or didn't : ( ) publish these and similar arrangements by other composers, e.g. Haydn.

There exist two versions of Oh! would I were.
The first is catalogued as Hess 198, and presents an arrangement for Soprano, tenor and piano trio;
the 2nd is one of the Irish Folksongs from WoO154: no.9 of this collection, for one voice and piano trio.

AFAIK neither of them has been published separately, Hess 198 even possibly still unpublished (the autograph is in the library of the Paris conservatoire).

[Michael]

Cooper's book is a real treasur trove for those interested in these songs, the circumstances in which Beethoven arranged and Thomson did (or didn't : ( ) publish these and similar arrangements by other composers, e.g. Haydn.

There exist two versions of Oh! would I were.
The first is catalogued as Hess 198, and presents an arrangement for Soprano, tenor and piano trio;
the 2nd is one of the Irish Folksongs from WoO154: no.9 of this collection, for one voice and piano trio.

AFAIK neither of them has been published separately, Hess 198 even possibly still unpublished (the autograph is in the library of the Paris conservatoire).

I have been interested in Cooper's book for some time, but if there is a lot of music notation in it, I am afraid it would be wasted on me.

[Roehre]

I have been interested in Cooper's book for some time, but if there is a lot of music notation in it, I am afraid it would be wasted on me.

Not really many music examples (no analysis e.g.), but obviously some tables. It is a scholarly book, I do recommend it, but I'd like to advise to browse through it before buying it, as I could imagine that this is not to everybody's taste, and it is quite expensive as well.