Ideal Beethoven cycle

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:
I'm afraid not! Hopefully more than 4!

I know there was always four soloists! I'm thinking I read somewhere long ago that there was something like 124? But I'm not sure. Wagner had to have 300 when he did it. He always had to do everything bigger than anyone else.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
The Lobkowitz was a private performance where Beethoven had no say over the size of the orchestra - if double the forces were used 4 years later that suggests that was nearer what he had in mind. I think this is where the historical performances can get too literal - we know that Mozart certainly wanted larger forces than were available and throughout Beethoven's career the orchestras were getting bigger. That is not to say that I favour the enormous orchestras of Wagner or Mahler playing Beethoven, but I think reducing the overall numbers to around 40 is too much. For a performance in 1817 of Christus am Oelberge - the strings numbered 62 and for the 9th in 1824, 58 strings were used.

Well you can't really use a chamber orchestra in a large hall, but this does not discount the value of chamber orchestras. I've got some analysis somewhere at home which concluded that smaller orchestras were in general more to his taste. I'll try and find it. I see the issue in practice dictated by the venue. But aesthetically a more dynamic performance can be achieved with smaller forces (an orchestra of around 60 players would be my maximum). Where a chorus is used the size of that would obviously also influence the size of orchestra, or vice versa.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:
Well you can't really use a chamber orchestra in a large hall, but this does not discount the value of chamber orchestras. I've got some analysis somewhere at home which concluded that smaller orchestras were in general more to his taste. I'll try and find it. I see the issue in practice dictated by the venue. But aesthetically a more dynamic performance can be achieved with smaller forces (an orchestra of around 60 players would be my maximum). Where a chorus is used the size of that would obviously also influence the size of orchestra, or vice versa.

You'll certainly get a cleaner and more precise sound with the smaller orchestra. I recall hearing a passage of the 9th finale performed by at least 1000 performers. While there is some added excitement with increased numbers, depending on enthusiasm, the overall quality degrades unless these performers are exceptionally talented.