Triple Concerto

[Zon]

Today, for the first time, I heard the Triple Concerto and found it exquisite, yet I can not find much info on it besides the little bit that came with the CD. Can anyone help me with the history of it?
Also where can I download the Emperor Concerto?

------------------
"To play without passion is inexcusable!" - Ludwig van Beethoven

[This message has been edited by Zon (edited 04-16-2002).]

[Peter]

Beethoven had started sketching an earlier triple Concerto in D during the spring of 1802 which was intended for a concert that was later cancelled. Beethoven abandoned the work and only fragmentary sketches (mainly for the first movement) remain. He however returned to the idea of a triple concerto and his intentions to compose such a work were expressed in a letter from his brother Carl in Oct 1803 to the publishers Breitkopf & Hartel, several months before the earliest known sketches for Op.56. The Concerto was the first of a series of works that Beethoven wrote for his pupil the Archduke Rudolph who probably played the solo piano part in the first private performance of the work. I think the slow movement is absolutely wonderful - who did you hear performing the concerto?

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Zon]

The CD contains both the Triple and Choral Fantasy it features-
Barenboim/Ma/Perlman with Berlin Philharmonic

[This message has been edited by Zon (edited 04-16-2002).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Zon:
Today, for the first time, I heard the Triple Concerto and found it exquisite, yet I can not find much info on it besides the little bit that came with the CD. Can anyone help me with the history of it?
Also where can I download the Emperor Concerto?

You rightly find it exquisite (and not just the 2nd mvmt) but the musical establishment thinks it's a second rate effort not equal to any of the other Beethoven concertos. I've never read a wholely positive assessment of it by any learned commentator (outside of this forum!). Of course these learned types are blinded by their own arrogance, bad taste and sheer stupidity (these are the 3 minimum qualifications for a music professor).

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
You rightly find it exquisite (and not just the 2nd mvmt) but the musical establishment thinks it's a second rate effort not equal to any of the other Beethoven concertos. I've never read a wholely positive assessment of it by any learned commentator (outside of this forum!). Of course these learned types are blinded by their own arrogance, bad taste and sheer stupidity (these are the 3 minimum qualifications for a music professor).

I love the triple concerto, however it isn't on the same level as the 4th and 5th piano concertos nor the Violin Concerto which is a work that I would truly describe as 'exquisite'. If I had to rate it, I would say it was better than the 2nd piano concerto, equal with the 1st but not as good as the 3rd. But I'm only a musician and though not a professor, may have gained at least one of the 3 qualifications along the way - I await the onslaught!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 04-17-2002).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I love the triple concerto, however it isn't on the same level as the 4th and 5th piano concertos nor the Violin Concerto which is a work that I would truly describe as 'exquisite'. If I had to rate it, I would say it was better than the 2nd piano concerto, equal with the 1st but not as good as the 3rd. But I'm only a musician and though not a professor, may have gained at least one of the 3 qualifications along the way - I await the onslaught!

You know I'm not in the habit of ranking Beethoven works. But if one must, I'd say it was his very finest piano trio concerto! The world's best ever, never surpassed, never to be surpassed!! The only qualification you need to understand music is to know how to LISTEN. They obviously don't teach this at the universities and academies.


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Zon]

I agree, B certainly had far superior compositions, but it was my first time hearing this one and I enjoyed it very much.
I never let what people say influence what I listened to, especially 'music professors' or 'music critics'. The fact that someone has a degree in music does not make their opinion any more important than anyone elses, nor does it make them a better musician. Its all a matter of taste. The day a music professor or music critic composes something that is still listened to in 200 hundred years I'll be all ears from heaven. ;-)

[Rutradelusasa]

This concerto is....
Imagine a piano trio (which he was very good at)and combine it with the accompaniament of an orchestra, there's much more room now to desenvolve the theme, to play with the instruments, that's what he did.
No player gets bored, no listener gets bored, the music is extremely exquisite, a rare gem you wish to find. And that includes all of his concertos.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
No player gets bored, no listener gets bored, the music is extremely exquisite, a rare gem you wish to find. And that includes all of his concertos.

The concerto is most interesting for the 'cellist - this is probably because Beethoven admired the playing of Anton Kraft who had been Haydn's leading 'cellist at Esterhaz and had at one time been credited with the composition of Haydn's D major 'cello concerto! An opportunity here for me to plug both of Haydn's glorious 'cello concertos!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
The concerto is most interesting for the 'cellist - this is probably because Beethoven admired the playing of Anton Kraft who had been Haydn's leading 'cellist at Esterhaz and had at one time been credited with the composition of Haydn's D major 'cello concerto! An opportunity here for me to plug both of Haydn's glorious 'cello concertos!

Have you heard Beethoven's variations for cello and (forte!)piano?


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
This concerto is....
Imagine a piano trio (which he was very good at)and combine it with the accompaniament of an orchestra, there's much more room now to desenvolve the theme, to play with the instruments, that's what he did.
No player gets bored, no listener gets bored, the music is extremely exquisite, a rare gem you wish to find. And that includes all of his concertos.

I think the piano trio concerto if a far more difficult medium for a composer than, say, just the piano or violin. All the soloists have to be satisfied and yet they must also play well as a trio and in ensmble with the orchestra - not an easy task. I suspect there are very few such concertos by other composers?

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Joy]

I agree a piano trio must be one of the most difficult pieces to perform as well as compose. I also heard concertos are very difficult for the same reason. The solo instrument along with the orchestra has to be very much in accord with each other which is a lot harder than say a solo piece.

Joy

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:
I think the piano trio concerto if a far more difficult medium for a composer than, say, just the piano or violin. All the soloists have to be satisfied and yet they must also play well as a trio and in ensmble with the orchestra - not an easy task. I suspect there are very few such concertos by other composers?

Brahms composed his double concerto for violin, cello, and orchestra. I am not aware of any other "triple" concertos--at least not prior to the 20th century.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
Brahms composed his double concerto for violin, cello, and orchestra. I am not aware of any other "triple" concertos--at least not prior to the 20th century.

Bach wrote triple concertos as well as a concerto for four Claviers! Mozart also wrote a concerto for 3 pianos K.242.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Bach wrote triple concertos as well as a concerto for four Claviers! Mozart also wrote a concerto for 3 pianos K.242.

I'm not sure if Baroque concertos count in the same context as B's. Haven't heard M's effort.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin