Rare Page

[Joy]

I think you know by now that Peter and I have a lot of patience! I'll be happy to wait!

Joy

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
I think you know by now that Peter and I have a lot of patience! I'll be happy to wait!

Joy

Ok, but don't you guys complain when the Classical Music recording industry goes totally bust. In my opinion, if the music's not worth paying for it's not worth listening to. How can this be the case with a Beethoven recording like this?

I don't need a preview hearing for a Beethoven work I am not familiar with, his name alone on the CD is enough to empty my wallet. Oh ye of little faith...


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:

I don't need a preview hearing for a Beethoven work I am not familiar with, his name alone on the CD is enough to empty my wallet. Oh ye of little faith...

I already have the complete Prometheus music, but not this recording which I may get in the future - I keep a note of your recommendations and of course a rare works archive and purchase as and when I'm in a position to do so! A short while ago you were complaining to me that we'd soon run out of rare pieces and as soon as I suggest a few possibilities you accuse me of doing in the CM recording industry and this despite setting up a site devoted to Beethoven which is seen by around 5000 people a week - I think I've done my bit!

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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rod
In my opinion, if the music's not worth paying for it's not worth listening to. How can this be the case with a Beethoven recording like this?

I don't need a preview hearing for a Beethoven work I am not familiar with, his name alone on the CD is enough to empty my wallet. Oh ye of little faith...


[/B]

Believe me, I don't listen to the rare pieces for a preview in order to buy a CD as I agree everything with the name Beethoven on it is, of course, a joy to own. But, I cannot run out and buy every song B ever composed no matter how much I would like to!! I just enjoy listening to the songs I have never heard before and might even be a little difficult to find. I thought that's what the rare page was all about??

Joy

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:

I don't need a preview hearing for a Beethoven work I am not familiar with, his name alone on the CD is enough to empty my wallet. Oh ye of little faith...

Oh yeah? I'll bet there are some performances of Beethoven works you wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. Some of those (as you have referred to) multiple cd albums that contain single movements are often not well performed and unless they are dirt cheap are not really worth spending the money for--even if Beethoven's name is on them.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
Oh yeah? I'll bet there are some performances of Beethoven works you wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. Some of those (as you have referred to) multiple cd albums that contain single movements are often not well performed and unless they are dirt cheap are not really worth spending the money for--even if Beethoven's name is on them.

I have recordings of almost everything he wrote many times over, alot of which I don't like. But over time I have compiled enough recordings that I do like, and have given the others away (many cds)!! My reference was to works I was not familiar with - in this context I would buy it on sight, as it would indeed be a rare piece (such as a recording of the Piano Duet sonata Op6 I bought a couple of weeks ago) - the quality of the performance would be of secondary importance under these circumstances.

The purpose of the rare page is two-fold from my point of view - a) to promote rarely performed pieces, b) to encourage people to improve their Beethoven music collections. If even people here aren't too concerned about Beethoven recordings what hope has the 'Beethoven industry' got?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 04-21-2002).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I already have the complete Prometheus music, but not this recording which I may get in the future - I keep a note of your recommendations and of course a rare works archive and purchase as and when I'm in a position to do so! A short while ago you were complaining to me that we'd soon run out of rare pieces and as soon as I suggest a few possibilities you accuse me of doing in the CM recording industry and this despite setting up a site devoted to Beethoven which is seen by around 5000 people a week - I think I've done my bit!

You know your Orpheus recording is rubbish, I threw mine away years ago. I do not like the idea of promoting his better known stuff with MP3s because there is no reason why people cannot buy it easily, very cheaply if they are not too fussy. The thing is Peter, it seems that even with this easy access and cheapness AND mp3s, people still do not wish to get their wallets and purses out (at least not for Beethoven!). Make of that what you will. I'll say this that a many of my preferred recordings have already been deleated from the catalogue years ago. Be warned!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:

Believe me, I don't listen to the rare pieces for a preview in order to buy a CD as I agree everything with the name Beethoven on it is, of course, a joy to own. But, I cannot run out and buy every song B ever composed no matter how much I would like to!! I just enjoy listening to the songs I have never heard before and might even be a little difficult to find. I thought that's what the rare page was all about??

Joy

There are still a few of B's arranged folksongs I haven't got myself, but I'm not going to pay £60 for DG's complete collection of B arrangements on 7 disks when I've already got 5 disks worth via individual recordings. However, if the DG set was on authentic instruments I would have bought it straight away - such is the difference.

You are right about the rare page, but there are many opus numbered works that are readily available, cheaply, that I suspect most visitors to this page would not consider. When I suggested here some time ago that the intro of Op70/2 was perhaps of Handelian origin, and even supplied the Handel piece in question as an mp3, only Peter was in a position to express an opinion - and yet op70/2 is a sublime and profound piece. This said it all to me Joy.

Also bear in mind the fact that if I didn't take risks and buy all this rare stuff, letting the kid starve on Christmas day with only a piece of string for a present, there would be no rare stuff here to be appreciated.

Believe me it's money well spent for your old age and your too frail to get to a concert!! I push certain excellent recordings because bizarrely they are all too soon deleted and lost to everyone (like the Badura-Skoda sonata recordings).

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 04-21-2002).]

[Michael]

Originally posted by Rod:
There are still a few of B's arranged folksongs I haven't got myself, but I'm not going to pay £60 for DG's complete collection of B arrangements on 7 disks when I've already got 5 disks worth via individual recordings. However, if the DG set was on authentic instruments I would have bought it straight away - such is the difference.

Even this seven disc collection of the arrangements is incomplete. B made alternative arrangements of about eight or nine folksongs and it is clearly stated in D.G.G.'s booklet that "these have been omitted". No reason is given but it could hardly have been lack of space, as the last CD in the set runs for only 45 minutes.
I have at least two of these alternative arrangements on an old vinyl disc, and they are quite substantially different to the usual ones.
Incidentally, I am inclined to hold on to recordings that I don't particularly like (or disagree with). Unless a performance is complete and utter crap, it usually has something to offer - if only the relief of returning to one's favourite version (if there is such a thing).
I had a large Beethoven collection on vinyl - but usually only one version of each work and, with very little access to live concerts (or Radio 3 in its good days), I ended up with a one-dimensional view of B's output. When I painstakingly replaced my collection on CD, I wound up with about three or four versions of each major work, which I think gives me a more balanced view.
Or maybe I'm too mean to give away any CD's!

Michael

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
You know your Orpheus recording is rubbish, I threw mine away years ago. I do not like the idea of promoting his better known stuff with MP3s because there is no reason why people cannot buy it easily, very cheaply if they are not too fussy. The thing is Peter, it seems that even with this easy access and cheapness AND mp3s, people still do not wish to get their wallets and purses out (at least not for Beethoven!). Make of that what you will. I'll say this that a many of my preferred recordings have already been deleated from the catalogue years ago. Be warned!

Well if the Heroic dance from Prometheus (which was your choice) qualified for the rare page, I don't see why nos 5 & 14 from the same work don't! I wasn't suggesting you provide the complete Prometheus music. You also have to consider that many people coming to this site will not have the convenience of a London Classical store - a rarity itself in many towns these days.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Well if the Heroic dance from Prometheus (which was your choice) qualified for the rare page, I don't see why nos 5 & 14 from the same work don't! I wasn't suggesting you provide the complete Prometheus music. You also have to consider that many people coming to this site will not have the convenience of a London Classical store - a rarity itself in many towns these days.

I was in two minds about even including the current track from Prometheus, but I said above I'd include the others in future for the rare page.

You'd be surprised what you can find in even the smaller towns - I found my recording of Op6 in a small muisc store in Newcastle!! The current recording by Bruggen I've seen in many places, which is why I pushed this one in particular - it's not often a first rate recording is readily available.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 04-22-2002).]

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:
I have recordings of almost everything he wrote many times over, alot of which I don't like. But over time I have compiled enough recordings that I do like, and have given the others away (many cds)!! My reference was to works I was not familiar with - in this context I would buy it on sight, as it would indeed be a rare piece (such as a recording of the Piano Duet sonata Op6 I bought a couple of weeks ago) - the quality of the performance would be of secondary importance under these circumstances.

I envy you your collection! As for myself I am just starting to examine the rarer pieces, starting particularly with piano music. I understand very well your comments here and appreciate the knowledge and experience that you impart to this forum--I value it a great deal.

The purpose of the rare page is two-fold from my point of view - a) to promote rarely performed pieces, b) to encourage people to improve their Beethoven music collections. If even people here aren't too concerned about Beethoven recordings what hope has the 'Beethoven industry' got?

Your submissions to the rare page are much appreciated and valued. My own thinking in regards to Beethoven works and performances has already been irrevocably altered by your examples and commentary. I feel the need to be careful in which performances I purchase since there are so many out there that are not worth the cost of the cd itself. In my listening to Kempf's complete sonatas I have been terribly dissapointed by the lack-a-daisical approach to these masterpieces. Occasionally he plays brilliantly, but not often enough. I spent $100 (U S) on that and I have little desire to listen to any more of it.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
..... I feel the need to be careful in which performances I purchase since there are so many out there that are not worth the cost of the cd itself. In my listening to Kempf's complete sonatas I have been terribly dissapointed by the lack-a-daisical approach to these masterpieces. Occasionally he plays brilliantly, but not often enough. I spent $100 (U S) on that and I have little desire to listen to any more of it.

I accept this is a big problem with Beethoven especially. I had a few Kempf recordings myself and felt the same as you. In circumstances where the best option is not available I usually recommend people choose the cheapest option, as you can often pay a lot of money for very poor interpretations. But at least people who ask here will know what the best options actually are!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin