175 years ago today

[Zon]

175 years ago today around 6 o'clock the physical entity passed on, but his spirit, passion, and creativity will forever inspire. This world is a better place for having had Ludwig van Beethoven in it.


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"To play without passion is inexcusable!" - Ludwig van Beethoven

[This message has been edited by Zon (edited 03-26-2002).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Zon:
175 years ago today around 6 o'clock the physical entity which gave birth to Romanticism passed on

Please don't connect the Master with that bunch of dreamers. You do him a disservice!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Zon]

Sorry I dont follow you. Explain please.

[Chris]

He's asking you not to connect Beethoven with the Romantic composers. Rod is not a big fan of the Romantic era.

[Zon]

Understood. I apologize for the misrepresentation of the Master. I do not care for the generalization myself. Regardless, if you like or dislike them, Beethoven marked a new era in music.

[This message has been edited by Zon (edited 03-26-2002).]

[chopithoven]

Originally posted by Zon:
This world is a better place for having had Ludwig van Beethoven in it.

Beethoven not only made the world a better place. He and the other great artists of history justify the existence of the universe. Imagine if great music and the other arts didn't exist... The world would have no better sense than giving a place to live to the intrascendent humans that inhabit it.

Rod: Now I see why you said that Wagner and Chopin were not necessary in the Voyager Record. Why you don't like the romantic era?(this is astonishing for me)

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"The ninth symphony was written by a deaf man who couldn't overcome daily misery... This is really remarkable" - Kurt Masur

[Rod]

Originally posted by Zon:
Understood. I apologize for the misrepresentation of the Master. I do not care for the generalization myself. Regardless, if you like or dislike them, Beethoven marked a new era in music.

Chris's right, I don't like Romantics in any shape or form! How can you say Beethoven marked a new era when the era in question was the beginning of the end of classical music?! If anyone, give that dubious prize to B's contemporary Weber, who has been called by some 'the father of Romantisism' and was certainly a very big influence on Wagner.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Zon]

How you want to classify periods and your view of them is irrelevant. The Master influenced much more music than the compositions which follwed within the next 5-10 years.
Do you not like Wagner?

[Rod]

Originally posted by Zon:
How you want to classify periods and your view of them is irrelevant. The Master influenced much more music than the compositions which follwed within the next 5-10 years.

Whatever the truth of the matter, you suggested it was Beethoven who gave birth to Romanticism - I say he did not.

Originally posted by Zon:

Do you not like Wagner?

No, other than Beethoven I recommend Handel. Both embue their music with a natural kind of nobility and sincerity; dynamism and electricity without melodrama, with great invention and perfection of form and structure. All factors one does not associate with Romantisism.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 03-27-2002).]

[MozartianaTSOM]

I guess there are two ways to think about it: the beginning of the Romantic period, or the end of classical music. Either one, Beethoven is on the brink between the two.

[Rutradelusasa]

I don't know about you guys, but I can't imagine my life without Korsakov, Mussorgsky, Dvoràk, Mendelssohn and Brahms, I think they were what a bunch of Romantics wished to be, I really don't like music that goes round and round to get to a point, I think that they hit that point the minute they try to find it (dream for the girls, huh?).
There're also other composers I'm fond of, but some of them, like Liszt, Berlioz and Chopin I could live without, and Saint-Säens wasn't romantic, as Dukas was not.

Also, I'm going to play Weber's Grand Pollaca in E (L'Hillaritè), what do you think of Liszt's transcription for orchestra fo this piece?

[Tom Kristof]

Originally posted by Rod:
Both embue their music with a natural kind of nobility and sincerity; dynamism and electricity without melodrama, with great invention and perfection of form and structure. All factors one does not associate with Romantisism.

Nobility: The theme that opens and closes Elgar's first symphony.

Sincerity: The 3rd movement of Chopin's sonata for violoncello and piano.

Dynamism and electricity without melodrama: Elgar's oratorios The Apostles, and The Kingdom.

Perfect form and structure: I agree, unfortunately form and structure were two things that had to be exploited for the benefit of a more interesting and enjoyable listening experience. (ie. The first movement of the fourth symphony by Brahms.) However, there are still some works that have perfect form and structure: The Lark Ascending by Vaughan Williams, for example.

The are examples of all the factors you mention found in music stretching from the Baroque period to the Late Romantic period.

I whole-heartedly agree with your statements on Handel and Beethoven, but I and many others would be lesser people if we could not listen to the wealth of beautiful and inspiring music from the romantic era.

Tom.



[This message has been edited by Tom Kristof (edited 03-29-2002).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Tom Kristof:
I whole-heartedly agree with your statements on Handel and Beethoven, but I and many others would be lesser people if we could not listen to the wealth of beautiful and inspiring music from the romantic era.

Tom.

I also agree with you. I think few composers after Beethoven attained his level of perfection, but there is some very fine music none the less from the Romantic era. I find that I'm more selective with later composers liking individual works, eg I adore the Liebstod from Tristan und Islode rather than the entire opera! And if forced to choose one Dvorak work it would have to be the 'cello concerto - with the classic and baroque composers I would find such a choice impossible to make.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Tom Kristof:
[B] I whole-heartedly agree with your statements on Handel and Beethoven, but I and many others would be lesser people if we could not listen to the wealth of beautiful and inspiring music from the romantic era.
B]

Well, if that's the way you feel, so be it. I find everything post-Beethoven utterly tiresome, or worse.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I find everything post-Beethoven utterly tiresome, or worse.

Obviously that's the way you feel, but I think it is rather a huge generalisation to dismiss every piece written after Beethoven as tiresome at best! I do however think that no composer after Beethoven rivals his acheivement.

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'Man know thyself'