Playing the symphonies in my head

[PaulD]

I was wondering if I am the only one not being able to kick start playing Symphonie No.2 (any of the movements) in my head without the help of a primer to put me on track. I can do it with any of the other eight, but not the second... It is not for lack of listening to it. I wonder if it means something about the wiring of my brain or perhaps that the symphony is not as catchy as the others... What is your experience?

[Peter]

That's weird Paul if you're able to do this for the others so I'm not sure why you find that a problem. It would be a real mental feat to sit down and think any of the symphonies through from beginning to end - I probably wouldn't get 5 minutes in without some interruption.

[PaulD]

Indeed it would be a great feat and I certainly cannot do that myself. I can only play certain parts in my head with lots of repetition (like a broken record) but at least I can start either at the beginning or somewhere in the middle. But not the second symphony. This one does not seem to leave an imprint in my head like all the others did.

Should I also add that when I hum the sixth, I cannot remove those pictures of flying ponys and kissing centaurs from my mind... Thanks Walt Disney and Fantasia!

[Peter]

Indeed it would be a great feat and I certainly cannot do that myself. I can only play certain parts in my head with lots of repetition (like a broken record) but at least I can start either at the beginning or somewhere in the middle. But not the second symphony. This one does not seem to leave an imprint in my head like all the others did.

Should I also add that when I hum the sixth, I cannot remove those pictures of flying ponys and kissing centaurs from my mind... Thanks Walt Disney and Fantasia!

Fantasia was a great film to introduce classical music to the young and that those images have stuck with you is testament to that!

[Michael]

This reminds me of an article I read by a conductor whose name escapes me. Often, early in the morning - probably over breakfast - a piece of music would come into his head, usually the first movement of a symphony. He would get distracted by the daily chores or whatever and forget about it.

Then the music would return some time later and quite often it would be at the exact point the symphony would have reached if he had kept on mentally listening to it. As he explained it, the music must have been playing in real time in his subconscious mind.

I wonder if this is common enough among musicians.

I can superficially run through a good deal of Beethoven's music in my head while humming here and there. Don't get me wrong: I'm not hearing every instrument or anything remotely like that. Maybe if I could read music I would probably have a mental visual guide to help me.



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[Peter]

This reminds me of an article I read by a conductor whose name escapes me. Often, early in the morning - probably over breakfast - a piece of music would come into his head, usually the first movement of a symphony. He would get distracted by the daily chores or whatever and forget about it.

Then the music would return some time later and quite often it would be at the exact point the symphony would have reached if he had kept on mentally listening to it. As he explained it, the music must have been playing in real time in his subconscious mind.

I wonder if this is common enough among musicians.

I can superficially run through a good deal of Beethoven's music in my head while humming here and there. Don't get me wrong: I'm not hearing every instrument or anything remotely like that. Maybe if I could read music I would probably have a mental visual guide to help me.



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Haven't had the experience you describe but yes being able to read music would enable you to hear the sounds in your head.

[Enrique]

I can mentally go through the 5th symphony from beginning to end. I've done it hundreds of times. And the same is true with regard to other symphonies, for example Mozart's G minor. I can't understand why Peter regards it as a feat.

[Peter]

I can mentally go through the 5th symphony from beginning to end. I've done it hundreds of times. And the same is true with regard to other symphonies, for example Mozart's G minor. I can't understand why Peter regards it as a feat.

To do it without reference to the score is certainly a memory feat - hope you observed the repeats!!

[Enrique]

No repeats. I don't know what you mean by "without reference to the score". I can tell you that, with regard to the 5th and the G-minor I used to read the scores, say one movement, from beginning to end without listening to the music and trying to hear it in my head. As I was greatly familiarized with the works, the reading was an easy thing. Thus I counted not only with the auditory memory but with the visual one too in order to reproduce the music in my head.

And the reason I do not consider it a feat is that hundreds of pianists and violinists do just that. When playing as a soloist they do it by heart (without a score). If a pianist can remember not just one melodic line but all of them (they have to remember both horizontally and vertically) why wouldn't it be possible for one of us to remember just one line? When you hum a piece of music your brain builds a melodic line out of the many lines present in the score, because your voice is a monophonic instrument.

But a thing like the 8th symphony I have it almost entirely in my head without ever having read the score. To be honest this was the state of things when I was in my twenties (20-30). Now, those works have somewhat faded in my mind, because of lack of practice.

[Peter]

No repeats. I don't know what you mean by "without reference to the score". I can tell you that, with regard to the 5th and the G-minor I used to read the scores, say one movement, from beginning to end without listening to the music and trying to hear it in my head. As I was greatly familiarized with the works, the reading was an easy thing. Thus I counted not only with the auditory memory but with the visual one too in order to reproduce the music in my head.

And the reason I do not consider it a feat is that hundreds of pianists and violinists do just that. When playing as a soloist they do it by heart (without a score). If a pianist can remember not just one melodic line but all of them (they have to remember both horizontally and vertically) why wouldn't it be possible for one of us to remember just one line? When you hum a piece of music your brain builds a melodic line out of the many lines present in the score, because your voice is a monophonic instrument.

But a thing like the 8th symphony I have it almost entirely in my head without ever having read the score. To be honest this was the state of things when I was in my twenties (20-30). Now, those works have somewhat faded in my mind, because of lack of practice.

By 'no reference to the score' I mean what you say in your 2nd paragraph about instrumentalists. I am a pianist myself and have performed pieces from memory which is one thing but it is still another to simply think a work through without a score and without playing. Playing involves more than one type of memory - tactile, auditory, analytical and visual and each aids the other.

When I used the word 'feat' I didn't mean it was an impossibly difficult challenge, rather that it is a mental discipline that few would actually take the time to sit down and practice. Thinking a 30 minute symphony through in all its details accurately (or 90 minutes in Mahler's case) without a score in your head is not an easy thing to do because it requires an excellent memory and good concentration abilities.

[gprengel]

I was wondering if I am the only one not being able to kick start playing Symphonie No.2 (any of the movements) in my head without the help of a primer to put me on track. I can do it with any of the other eight, but not the second... It is not for lack of listening to it. I wonder if it means something about the wiring of my brain or perhaps that the symphony is not as catchy as the others... What is your experience?

Dear Paul, I am impressed if you are really able to "hear" all other 8 symphonies with all movements in your head! I have all movements in the main passages in my mind but certainly not all from beginning to end. But I can't understand why you are not able to "hear" the second symphony. I have not heard this for some years but still I have all of the main parts in my mind as it has such great and memorable themes! But it certainly helps that I read the score in the past and can visualize it in my mind

[Michael]

When I used the word 'feat' I didn't mean it was an impossibly difficult challenge, rather that it is a mental discipline that few would actually take the time to sit down and practice. Thinking a 30 minute symphony through in all its details accurately (or 90 minutes in Mahler's case) without a score in your head is not an easy thing to do because it requires an excellent memory and good concentration abilities.

I find it quite pleasant, on a long walk, to run through some of the symphonies, or other works, in my head - taking care not to vocalise (unlike Beethoven).

As I am unable to read music, my mental recall is rather limited (detail wise) in the case of orchestral works but I can do quite well with the piano sonatas and string quartets. It helps if I have recently listened to a recording of the work.

Come to think of it, I can superficially run through a huge amount of Beethoven's work - mainly because I have been ingesting it for over fifty years. I can even get a few bars into the final movement of the Hammerklavier before my head overheats.

[EternaLisa]

There was a time when I listened to music so intently on purpose for being able to hear the playback in my head when I didn't have the time to sit and listen to it.

That's something I had many light-filled moments with, tuning into music and tuning out the mindchatter. I should do this again, now that im much older. Maybe it will smooth and polish away the acquired rough edges of my grumpy disposition at times.

Then many times when it would play in my "head", I would hear a variation on a theme " of that particular piece. And I often thought, " were I a musician, I would always have something I could write down, myself"

Not exactly stark originality, but incidental improv could lead one to that point where improv leaves off and an obscured path eventually comes into view.

I am aware that many do find inspiration in this way, mainly because when I listened to classical music mother played while we were growing up, I heard many resounding themes in the rock music of the 70s progressive artists.