Reading the horns if F.

[Enrique]

Hi: I have in front of me the score with the fourth movement of Chaikovsky's sixth symphony. Here he employs horns in F and the signature, for these, is empty, while the rest of the orchestra has two sharps (I think the latter fact is irrelevant for my question below). I know I must use the clef of C in the second line. But what should the signature be? And above all, how do I treat accidentals?

[Chris]

Horns are traditionally notated without a key signature in classical music. If there are any sharps or flats needed, they will be written in explicitly as accidentals.

[Enrique]

Horns are traditionally notated without a key signature in classical music. If there are any sharps or flats needed, they will be written in explicitly as accidentals.

And is the new signature (for the C clef) consisting of one flat (see post #1)?

[Chris]

And is the new signature (for the C clef) consisting of one flat (see post #1)?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. You treat all notes as natural unless there is a sharp or flat written immediately before the note. If that does not explain it, can you post a link to the score or a picture?

[Enrique]

It's very simple. In order to be able to read the horns I have to transpose. For the horns in F I imagine a C clef in the second line (in the score the horns are written with a G clef in the second line) and (mentally) replace the old signature by a new one. For the case at hand the new signature will consist of a single flat placed just below the second line. Alright.

Now what happens when an accidental appears? Some of them I must leave them without modification and some of them must be modified. For instance a flat replaced by a double flat, or a sharp replaced by a natural. [Imagine the signature consists of three flats and, in some measure, a G note appears marked by a flat (or a sharp for that case). Then this flat I call an accidental. It has validity only within the measure where it appears.]

The question is how to manage the accidentals. When I have to replace a sharp by a natural or a double sharp or a flat by a natural or a double flat or even what to do when an accidental natural appears.

[Sorrano]

Enrique, the horns in F sound a fifth lower than written. In looking at the Tchaikovsky 6th Symphony score, for example, I noted horns playing C#. These would sound F# when played, below the written note. Seems that traditionally the horns were always scored without a key signature until sometime in the last 50 years or so. It may have something to do with the horns not having valves initially, on that I am not sure, but I believe they were limited as to what they were able to play, chromatically.

[Chris]

Now what happens when an accidental appears? Some of them I must leave them without modification and some of them must be modified. For instance a flat replaced by a double flat, or a sharp replaced by a natural. [Imagine the signature consists of three flats and, in some measure, a G note appears marked by a flat (or a sharp for that case). Then this flat I call an accidental. It has validity only within the measure where it appears.]

The question is how to manage the accidentals. When I have to replace a sharp by a natural or a double sharp or a flat by a natural or a double flat or even what to do when an accidental natural appears.

Well...yes, you could think about it that way, but I think trying to do that is mentally more trouble than it is worth. If you are looking at a score and you want to play the part for horns in F on a piano, I think it is easier to forget about all that and just play each note a fifth above where it is written.

[Enrique]

I disagree. I think the easiest way to proceed, in the example of post #1, is this: Imagine a C clef in the second line with a signature consisting of one flat (therefor this is a B flat). So, when the notes in the score are not preceded by an accidental, you just sing it according to the signature. When the note is prececed by an accidental you do the following: if it is not a B you sing it as it is. If it is a B then you lower the accidental by one semitone. Using the same example, suppose you come to a B natural (i.e. preceded by the natural symbol). Then you sing it B flat. If you find a B flat, you sing B double flat. If you find a B sharp you sing it B natural. That's all.

In fact I'm not sure, perhaps I am wrong. I have to write an example and see if the above procedure works. It's time consuming but I see I have no other choice (except a book of the kind they use in the conservatories).