Scherzo based on Beethoven's sketches for the 10th (with NotePerformer)

[gprengel]

About 15 years ago I made an attempt to compose a symphonic Scherzo based on Beethoven's sketches for the Scherzo for his planned mysterious 10th symphony (24 bars for the Scherzo and 8 or so bars for the Trio). This was my very first project of this kind. When I listened to it recently I found the sound quality of my old recording terrible, so I recorded it now with my new software NotePerformer which now sounds so much better:

www.gerdprengel.de/Scherzo_on_10th.mp3

www.gerdprengel.de/Scherzo_on_10th.pdf

Any impressions or suggestions for improvement?

- Beethoven titled the sketch with "Presto". Should I do it faster?
- is the beginning of the second section at 0:55 too dissonant?

Gerd

[Peter]

Hello Gerd, firstly I have to say that I'm no fan of 'completions' and especially in the case of Beethoven where we know a work would gestate over a long period and would go through many revisions - a case in point is the theme of the last movt of the Waldstein Sonata which if memory serves me right took around 50 versions to get what we now have. I was looking forward to Barry Cooper's realisation of the 10th but I have to say despite all his undoubted skill it left me feeling deflated. It was an interesting academic exercise but I don't think it gave us a true representation of what Beethoven would actually have written.

Your realisation of the scherzo sketches is I think very skillful and you have great ability not just in composing and orchestration, but in capturing the style of a composer. I think you're right about the tempo - it's a bit sluggish for Presto. When you look at the tempo marking for the 9th scherzo it's insanely fast at 116 for the bar. I don't think the section at 0.55 is too dissonant at all, in fact nicely inspired and I think Beethoven would have liked that section!

[hal9000]

This isn't a knock on you gprengel (I think you are very talented), but every completion or piece in the "style" of Beethoven that I've heard never seem to capture Beethoven's momentum. There's very few composers that can match it. Still a great effort.

[susanwen]

I like it very much. I've been gone from this forum for several years. Actually, I had forgotten about the forum altogether - I'm glad to be back, especially to hear this piece once again. - Susan Wenger

[gprengel]

I like it very much. I've been gone from this forum for several years. Actually, I had forgotten about the forum altogether - I'm glad to be back, especially to hear this piece once again. - Susan Wenger

Dear Susan,
so good to hear from you again. I have been missing you, I hope you are doing well ... :-)

Gerd

[Peter]

I like it very much. I've been gone from this forum for several years. Actually, I had forgotten about the forum altogether - I'm glad to be back, especially to hear this piece once again. - Susan Wenger

Yes it's good to hear from you again Susan - welcome back!

[Peter]

About 15 years ago I made an attempt to compose a symphonic Scherzo based on Beethoven's sketches for the Scherzo for his planned mysterious 10th symphony (24 bars for the Scherzo and 8 or so bars for the Trio). This was my very first project of this kind. When I listened to it recently I found the sound quality of my old recording terrible, so I recorded it now with my new software NotePerformer which now sounds so much better:


Any impressions or suggestions for improvement?

- Beethoven titled the sketch with "Presto". Should I do it faster?
- is the beginning of the second section at 0:55 too dissonant?

Gerd

Hello Gerd - I hope you weren't offended by the responses, from my perspective they were only in regard to completions generally, not your work which as I've said I think is highly skilled. Did you think of increasing the tempo?

[gprengel]

Hello Gerd - I hope you weren't offended by the responses, from my perspective they were only in regard to completions generally, not your work which as I've said I think is highly skilled. Did you think of increasing the tempo?

Dear Peter, no, of course I am not offended. I understood what you were saying... eventhough I do have another view regarding completions: What a loss if someone had not completed Mozart's Requiem, Beethoven's 6th piano concerto, his f-minor Trio, Schubert's 10th in D, Mendelssohn's 3rd piano concerto in e, Mahler's 10th's final movement, ...

But I don't have the claim to "complete" Beethoven's 10th. I am just fascinated by the awesome sketched themes and wanted to work out something with these ... The same with my work on the first 2 movements of Mendelssohn's 6th symphony fragment where the base is much more worked out by Mendelssohn than it's the case with Beethoven's 10th.

Regarding the tempo of the Scherzo I will leave it as it is, I think it fits (same tempo as the Scherzo of the 5th or of Schumann's 1st (with a theme which is somewhat similar)

Gerd

[gprengel]

Dear Peter,
you asked whether I considered to increase the tempo. I originally was so ignorant to consider it thoughtfully, but as I recently listened to my orchestration of the Scherzo Woo 52 titled "Presto" by Beethoven I realised that the Scherzo for the 10th symphony also titled "Presto" by Beethoven I indeed realized much to slow. So I increased now the tempo by 10% and I think it is much better and furious now!!

http://gerdprengel.de/Scherzo-on-10th.mp3

[Peter]

That's much better - excellent. Is it really 2 years since you originally posted that? Isn't it incredible?

[gprengel]

That's much better - excellent. Is it really 2 years since you originally posted that? Isn't it incredible?

Dear Peter,

I shared the faster version with Prof. B. Cooper and he encouraged me to increase the tempo even more! And I think he was right!!

Do you agree? What tempo fits better?

http://gerdprengel.de/Scherzo-on-10th.mp3 (new very fast version)

http://gerdprengel.de/Scherzo-on-10th0.mp3 (last version)

Gerd