Beethoven's Conversation Books

[Sorrano]

There's no doubt Sorrano that you'd love Vienna!!

Didn't Beethoven make a comment about giving a German his sausage and wine and nothing else would matter?

[Enrique]

Isn't it sausages and beer that Viennese love?

[Hollywood]

Isn't it sausages and beer that Viennese love?

I live in Heiligenstadt which is in Vienna's 19th district. This district is called Dobling and it is one of Vienna's famous wine growing areas. There have been vineyards in this area since Roman times when they brought with them the knowledge of growing the grapes and also how to make wine to the locals in this area.

[Sorrano]

Isn't it sausages and beer that Viennese love?

I think you are correct, Enrique, in that the statement as I recall it was with beer not wine.

[Sorrano]

I live in Heiligenstadt which is in Vienna's 19th district. This district is called Dobling and it is one of Vienna's famous wine growing areas. There have been vineyards in this area since Roman times when they brought with them the knowledge of growing the grapes and also how to make wine to the locals in this area.

I imagine that is is beautiful and lush, as well.

[Enrique]

I think you are correct, Enrique, in that the statement as I recall it was with beer not wine.

Thanks Sorrano.

[Hollywood]

Isn't it sausages and beer that Viennese love?

What I find interesting here in Vienna is that the many times my late husband and I went to a Heuriger (german for "wine tavern") the majority of men would drink beer while the majority of women, including myself, drink wine. I always hated beer but I do like a good white wine.

[Quijote]

I'm still ploughing my way through Volume 2, which covers conversation books 9-16 (March 1820 to September 1820). I thought I'd give you an update regarding things of interest other than sausage casings...

Well, one thing of interest has cropped up that seems to settle the question as to whether or not Beethoven ever met Mozart.

On page 73 of this volume, Beethoven is visiting medal designer and sculptor Joseph Daniel Bohm's studio in the company of Johann Schickh, publisher of the Wiener Zeitschrift. From the context, Bohm is showing Beethoven a portrait or a bust of Mozart and Schickh asks: "Do you still remember Mozart? And is it like him?"

[Peter]

I'm still ploughing my way through Volume 2, which covers conversation books 9-16 (March 1820 to September 1820). I thought I'd give you an update regarding things of interest other than sausage casings...

Well, one thing of interest has cropped up that seems to settle the question as to whether or not Beethoven ever met Mozart.

On page 73 of this volume, Beethoven is visiting medal designer and sculptor Joseph Daniel Bohm's studio in the company of Johann Schickh, publisher of the Wiener Zeitschrift. From the context, Bohm is showing Beethoven a portrait or a bust of Mozart and Schickh asks: "Do you still remember Mozart? And is it like him?"

Your quote could simply be a reference to hearing Mozart play (as Czerny relates), but I've always thought it highly probable that he met Mozart on that initial visit in 1787.

[Schenkerian]

Your quote could simply be a reference to hearing Mozart play (as Czerny relates), but I've always thought it highly probable that he met Mozart on that initial visit in 1787.

Mozart, at that time, being the most celebrated composer of the day, it's more likely there would be a more tangible reference rather than a cryptic one if these two ever met. I don't remember reading that this occurred in any of the Beethoven bios I've read - but it's possible my own memory is faulty in this regard.

[Peter]

Mozart, at that time, being the most celebrated composer of the day, it's more likely there would be a more tangible reference rather than a cryptic one if these two ever met. I don't remember reading that this occurred in any of the Beethoven bios I've read - but it's possible my own memory is faulty in this regard.

But that was the purpose of Beethoven's visit, he wasn't on a sight seeing trip. Three weeks in the city and no attempt to meet is I think unlikely. I also would have thought Haydn was the more celebrated composer of the day?

[Schenkerian]

But that was the purpose of Beethoven's visit, he wasn't on a sight seeing trip. Three weeks in the city and no attempt to meet is I think unlikely. I also would have thought Haydn was the more celebrated composer of the day?

Well, perhaps, but remember he'd languished in Eisenstadt for nearly 30 years. I thought Haydn's invite to Beethoven to Vienna wasn't necessarily to meet Mozart. But such an important meeting between these two composers would surely warrant more than cryptic references. I don't remember reading about this in the Mozart letters either.

[Peter]

Well, perhaps, but remember he'd languished in Eisenstadt for nearly 30 years. I thought Haydn's invite to Beethoven to Vienna wasn't necessarily to meet Mozart. But such an important meeting between these two composers would surely warrant more than cryptic references. I don't remember reading about this in the Mozart letters either.

It was not at Haydn's invitation that Beethoven came to Vienna, rather it was the influence of nobles such as Count Waldstein.
Contemporary accounts from Seyfried, Czerny and biographer Otto Jahn say they met. Maynard Solomon suggests Mozart may have rejected Beethoven as a pupil due to his own circumstances - there was no reason for Mozart to mention Beethoven.

[Schenkerian]

It was not at Haydn's invitation that Beethoven came to Vienna, rather it was the influence of nobles such as Count Waldstein.
Contemporary accounts from Seyfried, Czerny and biographer Otto Jahn say they met. Maynard Solomon suggests Mozart may have rejected Beethoven as a pupil due to his own circumstances - there was no reason for Mozart to mention Beethoven.

My understanding was that Beethoven met Haydn when the latter was travelling to or from London and came to Bonn, where he recommended Beethoven come to Vienna after hearing some of his work. If Beethoven and Mozart did meet maybe its become apocryphal like the Liszt and Beethoven 'meeting'. Playing the piano for deaf man was always going to be a questionable exercise, after all.

[Peter]

My understanding was that Beethoven met Haydn when the latter was travelling to or from London and came to Bonn, where he recommended Beethoven come to Vienna after hearing some of his work. If Beethoven and Mozart did meet maybe its become apocryphal like the Liszt and Beethoven 'meeting'. Playing the piano for deaf man was always going to be a questionable exercise, after all.

That was for Beethoven's 2nd trip to Vienna.