Brahms' opinion on Bruckner.

[Quijote]

I still don't understand all this "Bruckner bashing", seems rather pointless to me.
Give this a go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6fAT3iGRWc

[Peter]

I still don't understand all this "Bruckner bashing", seems rather pointless to me.
Give this a go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6fAT3iGRWc

Very nice - I agree with you.

[Sorrano]

I still don't understand all this "Bruckner bashing", seems rather pointless to me.
Give this a go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6fAT3iGRWc

The E Minor Mass is another fine example of Bruckner's choral writing. I think the instrumentation is well done, also.

[Sorrano]

Here's a quote from Boulez concerning Brahms, by way of Schumann, Chopin and Wagner:
[ . . . ] Schumann, by comparison, shows little invention, and even little skill, especially in the longer works. His Scenes from Faust spring to mind, in which one sometimes wishes for greater color. Put simply, there are composers who possess this gift of instrumental invention and others who, more or less, lack it. Chopin was not interested in the orchestra; Brahms was much more astute in this respect than Schumann. Yet, if you compare the symphonies of Brahms to the operas of Wagner solely from the viewpoint of instrumentation, it is clear that Brahms followed Classical models very precisely and very well in a way that corresponds to his musical thoughts - but one is not bowled over by his instrumental imagination per se.

Mahler didn't think much of Schumann's orchestration abilities, either, having re-orchestrated at least two of the symphonies. Personally, I prefer them in their original format, notwithstanding the perceived weaknesses.

[Quijote]

Very nice - I agree with you.

I know. Strange, isn't it, that Bruckner even today creates such division. Beyond me, but there you go.
Isn't there a story of Sibelius having a punch up with an anti-Bruckner brigade after a concert of one of his symphonies? Good on him!!

[Quijote]

The E Minor Mass is another fine example of Bruckner's choral writing. I think the instrumentation is well done, also.

His choral writing is superb, as it would be given his upbringing! As regards his instrumental imagination, 'cellists dread him, hah !!! But there is far more subtlety there than meets the eye.
He writes splendidly for the brass, that's as sure as mustard is hot. I think we should give him a posthumous Doctorate in brass band writing. He may have been Austrian, but Yorkshire miners would have embraced him !!

[Quijote]

Mahler didn't think much of Schumann's orchestration abilities, either, having re-orchestrated at least two of the symphonies. Personally, I prefer them in their original format, notwithstanding the perceived weaknesses.

And Mahler even dabbled a bit re-orchestrating Beethoven's 9th!
I agree with you, let Schumann be, faults and all...

[Quijote]

About Schumann, his 'cello concerto should put to rest any doubts as to his orchestral abilities -such a beautiful work that holds its own even against the later Dvorak effort.
Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVFn7Hvxxos

[Quijote]

Certainly beats the muddy and cloying Brahms Double Concerto...

[Peter]

I know. Strange, isn't it, that Bruckner even today creates such division. Beyond me, but there you go.
Isn't there a story of Sibelius having a punch up with an anti-Bruckner brigade after a concert of one of his symphonies? Good on him!!

Haven't heard that one but possible I suppose in his frequently inebriated state!

[Peter]

His choral writing is superb, as it would be given his upbringing! As regards his instrumental imagination, 'cellists dread him, hah !!! But there is far more subtlety there than meets the eye.
He writes splendidly for the brass, that's as sure as mustard is hot. I think we should give him a posthumous Doctorate in brass band writing. He may have been Austrian, but Yorkshire miners would have embraced him !!

And what about the lovely adagio from the string quintet (for those who prefer Bruckner without the tubas!!) - I love the orchestral version.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juZqMJDTk6I[/YOUTUBE]

[Peter]

Mahler didn't think much of Schumann's orchestration abilities, either, having re-orchestrated at least two of the symphonies. Personally, I prefer them in their original format, notwithstanding the perceived weaknesses.

He also tinkered with Beethoven 9!

[Sorrano]

His choral writing is superb, as it would be given his upbringing! As regards his instrumental imagination, 'cellists dread him, hah !!! But there is far more subtlety there than meets the eye.
He writes splendidly for the brass, that's as sure as mustard is hot. I think we should give him a posthumous Doctorate in brass band writing. He may have been Austrian, but Yorkshire miners would have embraced him !!

I could not agree more. And speaking of mustard, you reminded me of the Irish garlic brats I had over the weekend.

[Sorrano]

About Schumann, his 'cello concerto should put to rest any doubts as to his orchestral abilities -such a beautiful work that holds its own even against the later Dvorak effort.
Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVFn7Hvxxos

I am not familiar with this work, sad to say, but I will give it a listen,.

[Sorrano]

He also tinkered with Beethoven 9!

I was going to ask about that, too, as I couldn't remember if it was Mahler that did the tinkering. I wonder how Beethoven might have reacted with something like that.